OC in Philly/ and ATF hasseling me

[sgt7546]

thats the beauty of these forms, we can agree to disagree.

[paulie6978]

Originally Posted by sgt7546

thats the beauty of these forms, we can agree to disagree.

agreed sarge!

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by paulie6978

just by them being outside demanding to see his guns. that in it self was unreasonable. im just trying to make a point and thats it no reason to be politically correct is what i mean

Cops can be outside your house and they can make demands. That is not a violation of your rights. They have no duty to inform you of your rights in this case and you are not afforded your fourth amendment protections unless you ask for them.

[XD45]

Originally Posted by paulie6978

just by them being outside demanding to see his guns. that in it self was unreasonable. im just trying to make a point and thats it no reason to be politically correct is what i mean

that makes sense??????????????????

[sgt7546]

Originally Posted by MarcS

you are not afforded your fourth amendment protections unless you ask for them.

The right of protection under the fourth amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures are enforce at all times. You do not need to request them.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by sgt7546

The right of protection under the fourth amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures are enforce at all times. You do not need to request them.

No, not literally, but if they ask you if they can search, you must be very clear that you do not give permission. What i was getting at is if you do not explicitly deny a requested search, the fourth amendment might as well not exist.

[sgt7546]

Originally Posted by MarcS

No, not literally, but if they ask you if they can search, you must be very clear that you do not give permission.

On a warrant-less search, the only way your fourth amendment rights can be waved is if you agree to a consensual search. There are other exceptions to warrant-less searches, but the waiver would be the one that would apply in this matter. If you do not make it very CLEAR that you consent, then the search will not legally occur. Most agency's actually use a written consent form for matters like this.

[awdv6turbo]

I have a ? I am not sure but is just owning the same type of firearm that is used in a crime enough for them to even get a warrant? Wouldn't they need a little more then that. I know at this point it doesn't matter because he already allowed them access to the firearm but I am just curious. Also not saying I would or wouldn't be a hard ass and ask for a warrant I am really just thinking ( typing ) out loud here is all. Just seems a little to broad to check all the registered firearms in the area that are the same with out more info to go on? But I also never claimed to be too smart either so???????????

[sgt7546]

Originally Posted by awdv6turbo

I have a ? I am not sure but is just owning the same type of firearm that is used in a crime enough for them to even get a warrant? Wouldn't they need a little more then that. I know at this point it doesn't matter because he already allowed them access to the firearm but I am just curious. Also not saying I would or wouldn't be a hard ass and ask for a warrant I am really just thinking ( typing ) out loud here is all. Just seems a little to broad to check all the registered firearms in the area that are the same with out more info to go on? But I also never claimed to be too smart either so???????????

awdv6turbo,

You are absolutely right that owning the same caliber of handgun would not be enough to get a warrant, in fact without articulable probable cause, no warrant would be issued. (IMO) base on cases I've been involved with, the ATF was working with more specific information past just the caliber, which that information they were not going to reveal. They obviously didn't consider this man as a suspect, because if they suspected him of murdering a Police Officer, the response would of been more than just six agents waiting outside. In this case it appears that ATF were checking with owners of this particular type of handgun, to verify that the lawful owner was still in possession of said gun, IE: not stolen, as we all know, some people have reservations about reporting a handgun as stolen.
(just my two cents, I had no involvement in this case)

[pred]

When I said they were good to me, It was in reference totheir attitude and composure,,, Hasseling me, Well It's their job to have 6 guys with Glocks? on their waists gathering in my driveway and asking to come inside,,
They even went to the extent to park all the way down the end of my street which is one way in their unmarked cars.
I know that they had no thoughts that it was me,,, But the first Q to see everything I owned by 6 of them is a bit unraveling,, It is all over and done with now, Crime will still happen, and the 9mm will still be one of the most popular calipers, and The AFT will still come to peoples houses, I ndont they should fish as they were ttrying to do, But I will show them a peticular item if they ask for a peticular item to help in an investigation.
If I had sent them off with out showing them the one,,, and demanded a search warrent, They would have been back with 20 of thier friends and a search warrent for sure, Then It would have really been a bad/horrible expirence for me,
So I figure that sometimes it's better to roll over just a bit, Than to piss em off, and roll over a whole lot, And get your house searched theroughly.
Has this ever happened to anyone else?