Gnbrotz hearing Info/ROLL CALL

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

I would wager that Tues. is NOT the day for local LEO to act like jackasses.

I agree, and I suspect that Tuesday is not the day for anyone present at the courthouse to act like jackasses. (which includes us)

I would rather see the outcome of Greg's case on the news, than footage of some over-enthusiastic person throwing a fit at courthouse security over the finer points of PA statute. I would encourage anyone who wants to test-the-waters of Courthouse security to do it on Wed or somewhere else.

Although I will will likely OC, I will be maintaining a low profile. If the security person asks me to place my weapon in my car, I will ask, one time, "I thought it was the responsibility of the courthouse to secure the firearm?" After that I will grit my teeth and bear it, whatever the response is. Maybe later that day I will start a thread here about getting a group of us together to randomly swamp the courthouse for the purpose of asserting our rights. But on Tue, that day is for Greg, and for us to look like upstanding citizens.

I'm not trying to be a poopey-head here, but just because everything looks like Greg is going to win, and this is going to be a triumph for gun owners, or some such thing... That is not to say that Greg will in-fact win, or that any good will come of this. My recommendation to everyone: Play it cool.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Carnes

My recommendation to everyone: Play it cool.

Although some may find your points presumptuous and rude, I find no objection to your recommendations as they are spot on. No foul.

I guess I just didn't see it as needed. Hopefully I was right.

[Joe Smith]

Points for the word poopey-head!


Yep, we have to be respfectul for the cameras. Then we can release the fury of teh intenets!

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

Although some may find your points presumptuous and rude, I find no objection to your recommendations as they are spot on. No foul.

I guess I just didn't see it as needed. Hopefully I was right.

You're right. I have a hard time with accidentally being a jerk sometimes. I certainly do not mean to be rude, and I hope no one takes my comments as such.

I surely do not see myself as some sort of special authority or whatever, I am only sharing my opinion.

[Spike]

Hey all, just letting you know I read the article today online and will be attending, dressed nicely, with holster in plain view. I will also attend the pre-meet at Texas Lunch.

P.S. - I have a fobus paddle holster I'll be wearing empty(which I found out was crap after I bought it) so don't make fun of me too much. HA HA! It's just the only thing that stands out enough. ;-)

[chesire17201]

Originally Posted by Spike

Hey all, just letting you know I read the article today online and will be attending, dressed nicely, with holster in plain view. I will also attend the pre-meet at Texas Lunch.

P.S. - I have a fobus paddle holster I'll be wearing empty(which I found out was crap after I bought it) so don't make fun of me too much. HA HA! It's just the only thing that stands out enough. ;-)

well by all means, welcome to pafoa.......

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by Carnes

I agree, and I suspect that Tuesday is not the day for anyone present at the courthouse to act like jackasses. (which includes us)

I would rather see the outcome of Greg's case on the news, than footage of some over-enthusiastic person throwing a fit at courthouse security over the finer points of PA statute. I would encourage anyone who wants to test-the-waters of Courthouse security to do it on Wed or somewhere else.

Although I will will likely OC, I will be maintaining a low profile. If the security person asks me to place my weapon in my car, I will ask, one time, "I thought it was the responsibility of the courthouse to secure the firearm?" After that I will grit my teeth and bear it, whatever the response is. Maybe later that day I will start a thread here about getting a group of us together to randomly swamp the courthouse for the purpose of asserting our rights. But on Tue, that day is for Greg, and for us to look like upstanding citizens.

I'm not trying to be a poopey-head here, but just because everything looks like Greg is going to win, and this is going to be a triumph for gun owners, or some such thing... That is not to say that Greg will in-fact win, or that any good will come of this. My recommendation to everyone: Play it cool.

While I agree that it is not appropriate to go Andrew Meyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...Taser_incident) at the courthouse, it's equally inappropriate to submit to a government's incorrect actions. Regardless of the safety/liability issue of leaving a firearm in a car, and regardless of the fact that this would force us to be unarmed from the courthouse doors to our cars (hmm... what kind of people are typically at courthouses?), it is still the responsibility of the court facility to provide lockboxes. I understand your concern for making a big deal out of "minor" points, but it's the minor violations that will ultimately do us in.

[lildobe]

Just a last call, if anyone wants to carpool with me from Pittsburgh, I still have room. Even if you just want to caravan, shoot me a PM!

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by imperialism2024

While I agree that it is not appropriate to go Andrew Meyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...Taser_incident) at the courthouse, it's equally inappropriate to submit to a government's incorrect actions. Regardless of the safety/liability issue of leaving a firearm in a car, and regardless of the fact that this would force us to be unarmed from the courthouse doors to our cars (hmm... what kind of people are typically at courthouses?), it is still the responsibility of the court facility to provide lockboxes. I understand your concern for making a big deal out of "minor" points, but it's the minor violations that will ultimately do us in.

Please, don't get me wrong, I do not think it is a "minor" point at all. If I thought it was a minor point, I would likely be one of the people saying Greg should have just put his pistol in the car when the constable asked him to.

All I am saying is that since I would not be at the courthouse if it weren't for Greg and his case, I am going to lay-low and focus on supporting the issue. If security is FUBAR, we can go to the courthouse some other day, and then we can pitch a fit.

I appreciate the fact that securing a weapon in a vehicle is problematic. I am hopeful that the court facility will be prepared to deal with an increased number of weapons, but if not, I have a contingency plan in place.

Keep in mind that it is possible that officials may encourage a passive-aggressive approach to provoking Greg's supporters through plausibly-deniable ignorance and unpreparedness. In other words, they may "unintentionally" create an environment that could encourage a situation that would draw attention away from the Sheriff's bad judgment and take a hit on lawful gun owners at the same time. I would hate to think that I acted as a tool in some clever (or genuinely accidental) ploy by the Sheriff to save face.

Also, keep in mind that the media really couldn't care less about Greg, they are only looking for a sensational story to sell to the public. They would dump Greg's story to cover the more sensational pictures of a person freaking-out about gun laws while being dragged out of the courthouse in handcuffs.

There is a time and a place for everything. Tue is likely not the time or place for anything other than quiet, professional support for Greg and his case. Just my opinion on how and why I plan to behave in a certain way; I do not mean to be cocky, rude or to suggest that I am telling anyone how to act.

[imperialism2024]

Originally Posted by Carnes

Please, don't get me wrong, I do not think it is a "minor" point at all. If I thought it was a minor point, I would likely be one of the people saying Greg should have just put his pistol in the car when the constable asked him to.

All I am saying is that since I would not be at the courthouse if it weren't for Greg and his case, I am going to lay-low and focus on supporting the issue. If security is FUBAR, we can go to the courthouse some other day, and then we can pitch a fit.

I appreciate the fact that securing a weapon in a vehicle is problematic. I am hopeful that the court facility will be prepared to deal with an increased number of weapons, but if not, I have a contingency plan in place.

Keep in mind that it is possible that officials may encourage a passive-aggressive approach to provoking Greg's supporters through plausibly-deniable ignorance and unpreparedness. In other words, they may "unintentionally" create an environment that could encourage a situation that would draw attention away from the Sheriff's bad judgment and take a hit on lawful gun owners at the same time. I would hate to think that I acted as a tool in some clever (or genuinely accidental) ploy by the Sheriff to save face.

Also, keep in mind that the media really couldn't care less about Greg, they are only looking for a sensational story to sell to the public. They would dump Greg's story to cover the more sensational pictures of a person freaking-out about gun laws while being dragged out of the courthouse in handcuffs.

There is a time and a place for everything. Tue is likely not the time or place for anything other than quiet, professional support for Greg and his case. Just my opinion on how and why I plan to behave in a certain way; I do not mean to be cocky, rude or to suggest that I am telling anyone how to act.

Fair enough. I misunderstood what you were saying, I believe. Maybe it's just that I feel challenging the misapplication and ignorance of laws by government officials should always be handled in a quiet and professional manner. There is never a time to "freak-out" about gun laws.

Edited to take out a line that may affect my legal future should the SHTF on Tuesday.