Self-Defense Guideline Card

[Hawk]

I ran accross this surfing the web. I appologize in advance if this is old news.

"THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE JUST I FEW THINGS TO THINK ABOUT."

The card reads as follows,

If you are involved in a Self Defence shooting use only the amount of force required to repel or stop an armed attack.

Take the following steps only after you are sure the threat has been neutralized, if possiable secure the weapon used by the assailent.

Check yourself and bystanders for injuries, call Police and ask for Emergency Medical help before taking further action,remember the investigation starts with the recorded phone call to Police, only ask for help, describe what has happened,
give your location and identify yourself, do not say anything else or make statements that could be used against you later,don't give details of the incident over the phone, hang up.

Do not discuss the incident with bystanders. Make a complete check of the scene, however do not remove or tamper with evidence.

If the attacker has been shot and has been disarmed, and no longer a threat try and assess his injuries and render first-aid if possible.

Do not talk to or taunt the suspect or use abusive or racially charged language that could haunt you in court later.

Don't touch the assailant if he appears dead.

Don't let anyone else handle or touch evidence- keep bystanders back, secure your weapon, and unless you are a uniformed security officer keep it out of sight, innocent people have been accidentally shot by responding Police because
of misunderstanding when officers arrived on scene and saw people holding weapons, try and spot them first and attract their attention in a non-threatening manner.

At first responding Police may treat you as a suspect by disarming and handcuffing you, follow Police instructions to the letter, do not argue, resist or question their actions, there will be time to straighten out the facts later, do as you are told.

Make no statements until speaking with an attorney, any thing you say will be used in the investigation, put your request for legal advice in a form Police will understand, relate to, and not hold against you such as " I know a storekeeper who shot a robber and got sued", I think I should talk to a lawyer first.

Be firm but polite that you will make no statements until you speak to an attorney, remember that any thing you say will be used against you later.

When Fire Rescue or Paramedics arrive get medical treatment for shock for yourself even if you think you don't need it.

Do not speak to reporters or the media for any reason.

Advise your attorney not to make statements to the press on your behalf.

Remember the media has no authority, do not speak to them, why give them a chance to twist your statement around or portray you as a vigalante or worse!

Never apologize for defending your life, or that of another.

Never make statements to Police or anyone else such as " I'm sorry I had to shoot, I regret this had to happen," you appear remorseful therefor your actions were inappropiate.

Such bungling statements could cost you big time later in a court of law, a grand jury hearing, or coroners inquest, and could give the suspect or his family a legal basis for a civil trail for damages, keep your mouth shut.

Persons involved in shooting incidents face a great amount of stress.

Psychological problems can sometime appear even weeks or months after an incident, and phyiscal one's such as

Sleeplessness, headaches, diarrhea, heart problems and others sometimes occur, they are common and effect even trained law enforcement and military. Seek professional medical and pyschological advice.


Hawk,

[Montanya]

Alot of that I can agree with, but things like attempting to render first aid and such I certainly would not do. You just threatened my life, I am not getting close enough to help you threaten it again. I would stay clear of someone and wait for the actual medics to arrive and render first aid. Other than that, I like the idea of not going into details on the phone with the 911 operator or the officers, remaining silent after identifying myself would seem the most prudent course of action.

[Montanya]

[Edited after RWhiteman's retraction] Tis all good. That's why it's great that we have such a forum as we can all toss around ideas and someone can point out something that might have seemed perfectly logical in once sense but when someone gives you another way to look at it isn't as functional

[Weights]

I'll post here what I was told to do by my instructor in case of a self-defense shooting. My instructor has trained law enforcement officers for over 25 years, and is able to testify in court for me if needed, which is part of the reason I recommend that everyone gets training from a credible source, even if it is not required to get the license, such as in Pennsylvania. But here goes what he told me to do.

First thing is to check your environment after your assailant is down and see if there are any other threats to your life, which may include getting your assailant's weapon away from him/her. Once you are safe, re holster and conceal your weapon (very important to do even if you are OCing, so that you are not a victim of mistaken identity by LEOs), call 911, give your name and location, and say that there were shots fired, someone is down, and you need help immediately; that's it, nothing else, hang up if you have to in order to avoid saying more. Your next call should be to your attorney; that's why you should know now who to call if you are ever involved in a shooting. If you can, try to help your assailant, but don't tamper with the evidence either. Once the police arrive (in OH, notification is required, although they will ask you if you are armed I believe, so don't lie about this), identify yourself as a concealed carry holder and you armed, tell them where the gun is, and do not resist or talk back if they disarm or cuff you, play along. When and if asked what happened, just simply reply that you fully intend to cooperate with their investigation, but before you do, you need to speak with an attorney. It is also a good idea to ask for medical attention, and say you are not feeling well. Of course, follow any orders given to you, but do not say anything else.

One thing my instructor stressed is that you will have been through a very serious dilemma, and you will naturally want to talk, but you can't, because it may cost you very big time if you do. The biggest thing is to shut up and not say more other than your name, location, you are a concealed carry holder, are armed, the weapon is here, I need to speak to a lawyer before I answer any questions, and I need medical attention because I'm not feeling well. That's it, and your lawyer will direct you from there. If you guys have any comments, of course please feel free to tell me if you feel I'm wrong anywhere here.

[Snert]

Personal defense TV just did a skit on this very topic. Massad ayoob or something like that was the host of the part. Alot of what Weights said is in there as well. Basic big part was to not say anything until talking to a attorney...

Snert..

[RoyJackson]

As far as rendering first aid...remember, many thugs are junkies or have other perverted tendencies. Unless one carries rubber gloves, it is best not to touch a person who is bleeding. AIDS can be transmitted through open cuts or other means. Using shared needles (as many junkies do) is the second most prevalent form of AIDS/HIV transmission.
I'm not being racist or homophobic...just realistic.

[Pa. Patriot]

Any good tactics/self defense school will teach these things.
I guess the card is a good idea for those that have not been able to attend such instruction.

[Montanya]

Just in general someone who is down on the ground could be unconcious or could be faking it to get you in closer. I would say keep a defensive distance until a LEO arrives and then you can surrender the scene to them. Think about a miranda warning the whole time, anything you say CAN and WILL be used against you, so as always the best thing to say is nothing. Often cops will try and be friendly to you and try and be your buddy to "help you" to discuss what just happened, in the end, they are witnesses to the procecution, not the defense. They aren't the enemy but they aren't your friend either. Being the key witness in a murder trial looks real good to a CO.

I would also think it goes without saying, study, and learn that information, but for god sake, don't carry it with you. Again, even if it is only in case of a shooting, it allows the prosecutor to hint at pre-meditation i.e. you "expected" a shooting.

[DPD15]

RE: Line 3 of what was first posted re: calling 911 etc.

BE VERY MINDFUL OF WHAT YOU SAY WHEN CALLING 911 - THIS WILL/CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU. Simply call and state VERY generically: "Need an ambulance for a man down, possible gunshot wound. Give location and HANG UP!" Anything else is subject to interpretation and spin by the other person's (or family) soon to be lawyer when they sue you or the DA thinks the shooting is questionable.

The dispatcher will be attempting to extract more info - thats their job - and may try to order you or scream at you - thats why you hang up! Anything you say when calling the po-po is legally admissible and considered a freely, volunteered statement (yeah, I know, you were under stress from almost losing your life, blah blah - remember by the time the perp's attorney sues your butt or the DA files on you - you will look like the aggressor!)

Word of advice!!!!!!

[wewo]

"THis is 911, what is the emergency" Answer : "There has been a shooting, please sent the police and an ambulance to 1313 Mackingbird Lane".