Allegheny County- thought I'd share.

[Jared McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Tokamak

I live in allegheny county and appreciate your story.

I usually go concealed and have often wondered what the effect of open carry in this county would be.

I once had my gun accidently show at a store when my coat was open and I put my arm up on the back of seat. I realized that I was showing when I saw a number of people looking at me. I smiled, lowered my arm to cover my gun and no one said a word or called the police, etc. I was worried that one of the clerks might think I was going to rob them and panic but no one did.

Glad to be of service. I think there are enough hunters that people are at least comfortable with firearms. Especially in the suburbs, at least in blue collar areas, I know alot of people with LTCF even if they don't carry. Almost everyone that I associate with on a daily basis has one. Quite a few of them carry. I think the more people carrying, the better, public opinion-wise.

My response to open carry, when there is a response, has been usually positive.

[Jared McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

It would be hard to stop doing now that I do it so regularly. I can wear regular clothes and don't have to shop around my rig

PS: Welcome to the site.

Thank you for the welcome, sir. I came back to PA from a combat zone. That experience taught me a few things, which motivated me to carry, and eventually to open carry. I guess I just got to used to carrying my arms in the open. I see it as a right of human beings, and a sign of citizenship.

[wboggs]

Originally Posted by Jared McLaughlin

Glad to be of service. I think there are enough hunters that people are at least comfortable with firearms. Especially in the suburbs, at least in blue collar areas, I know alot of people with LTCF even if they don't carry. Almost everyone that I associate with on a daily basis has one. Quite a few of them carry. I think the more people carrying, the better, public opinion-wise.

My response to open carry, when there is a response, has been usually positive.

Just think how nice people would be to each other if everybody carried and knew it.

[Kypt]

So basically they can arrest you and there's really nothing we can do to change it? That's weak. Ahhhhhhh, freedom.

[Jared McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by wboggs

I'm in Agony County too and hear that open carry in Pittsburgh (though perfectly legal since we're not a First Class City) is most likely to get you a free ride to jail. Of course these are the same police that tell me that it's a jail-able crime to video tape a crime being committed in public. I'm not saying Pittsburgh Police are stupid.... they're just dumb; it's like they have their own little country here.

I'm all for open carry and think that in and of itself could dramatically curtail violent crime; I mean if the Omaha Mall had thousands of people with guns strapped to their sides, I think nut case would have stayed home or found a place full of suckers without guns. What I dont like about it is you may learn who the bad guy is (behind you in line) as he grabs your open carry gun and shoots you. Remember as easy as it is for you to draw you weapon, it's equally easy for a bad guy behind you to do so.

Now there are a million theoretical arguments about this subject with minisquel changes in the facts but think about this; how many cops get shot with their own gun? Concealed carry has a HUGE advantage; nobody knows where the gun is but you.

While the majority of politics in the Steel City leaves me wanting, I can say I've had mostly positive experiences with city officers. It's the municipal guys that literally scare me to death. I've been in large fist fights, messy affairs, and dealt with city cops who really didn't seem to care that I was armed. They did their job, ran the serial numbers, checked my license (I was concealed at the time), and let me go. I've walked by city officers in convenience stores who either didn't notice or didn't care that I was open carrying.

It's the municipal guys that I'd rather never inform that I'm armed. I had one draw on me, safety off, finger on the trigger, because I informed him that I was carrying. I'll never do that again. I could comment on this situation more, but it would be unbecoming of this forum and my past associations.

I'll take it as a given that there are "tactical" tradeoffs on the concealed/open carry aspect. I make my choice based on my criteria as I see fit, and I'm glad that we live in a place where it's open to debate.

[Jared McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by wboggs

You would think but if they are anything like Pittsburgh, they make up their own laws and take you to jail. Then you get to hire an attorney and get it straightened out. Not worth it to me.

To be honest, I'm aware of the possibility that someone may take me to jail for doing what I have a right to do. I also can't afford an attorney. It's a risk I take with full knowledge of the possible outcome. Life has taught me that liberty is inherently dangerous, and must at times be defended with great peril. This is not to denigrate those who do not, we all choose our battles. Personally, I'd be willing to fight the legal battles without representation, if need be, and suffer the consequences. I'd much rather be physically imprisoned for doing what I have a right to, than mentally imprisoned by the fear of such.

[Jared McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by wboggs

Maybe in some ways weak but LEO's know they are dealing with a BG yet still on occasion lose their weapon and get shot. On the other side of that coin, how often does a LOE stop a BG and go to his trunk first and occupy both his hands with a microwave oven while in the vicinity of/dealing with a BG wanted for murder or an opportunist that is desperate?

To me the advantage of concealed carry is there's no way a BG knows where the gun is or most important that there even is a gun; that takes all issues of any gun completely out of the picture and cant possibly put any ideas in his psycho mind. Verses out in the open where everybody can see and you may very well have both or the wrong hand occupied with something while some psycho, desperate BG opportunist takes advantage of the situation. I dont know how anybody could not see the advantage of concealed carry over open.

There are advantages and disadvantages. Read through a military manual on battlefield deception and you'll find arguments for both sides. Sometimes the deception is not worthwhile, or simply not to your advantage. The adversary may know that you are armed, but may have no idea how you'll react to an attempted disarm.

Likewise, the affects of the knowledge or lack thereof has an unknown affect on the adversary. It is possible that under the condition of open carry an assailant may choose another target, or may choose to engage you by gaining the advantage of your weapon. Concealed carry doesn't really change this decision point, the assailant may view you as a viable target or not. The metric by which they do this is not fixed.

Whichever choice you make, you'll have to brainstorm what advantages and disadvantages such a situation may bring to the table for you. Certainly open carry brings about a risk that must be mitigated, but likewise concealed carry has its own mix of risks.

[Emptymag]

Jared,
WELCOME to the forum, and THANK YOU for your service!
Glad to see more accounts of OC in the area.

Those are some well written, intelligent posts.

You are absolutely correct in that there are advantages and disadvantages to both OC and CC... what works for one person may not work for another.

To be honest, I'm aware of the possibility that someone may take me to jail for doing what I have a right to do. I also can't afford an attorney. It's a risk I take with full knowledge of the possible outcome. Life has taught me that liberty is inherently dangerous, and must at times be defended with great peril. This is not to denigrate those who do not, we all choose our battles. Personally, I'd be willing to fight the legal battles without representation, if need be, and suffer the consequences. I'd much rather be physically imprisoned for doing what I have a right to, than mentally imprisoned by the fear of such.

I guess YOU have no problem understanding the blue portion of my sig line.



My own experience with OCing leaves me wondering WTF people are talking about when they make wild assumptions about the reactions of the public and law enforcement, based upon... well, based upon nothing but their own fears and wild imagination. I have some experience on that end of the OC "debate"... I used to think that all of these "bad things" would happen.
They don't.

Here are some more Pittsburgh area OC threads if you're interested.

Here's a link to many of my own OC experiences.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...ny-county.html

Here's one that Skuggi started.
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed...eferrerid=2476

Oh, and regarding the "gun grab" argument that I see repeated over and over... anyone who attempts to remove my Glock is going to get an extra helping of holster, belt, Levis, and my ass, because you can't just "grab" my handgun. I don't think OC "haters" ever even consider retention holsters.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by wboggs

I'm in Agony County too and hear that open carry in Pittsburgh (though perfectly legal since we're not a First Class City) is most likely to get you a free ride to jail.

Whatever gave you that impression? It's far from accurate.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by wboggs

You would think but if they are anything like Pittsburgh, they make up their own laws and take you to jail. Then you get to hire an attorney and get it straightened out. Not worth it to me.

What is the basis for this statement? I'm curious, have you or anyone you know been arrested and taken into custody for OC'ing in Pittsburgh?