Hassled at a Restaurant for OC

[lildobe]

Ok, this hassling for OC'in and the general lack of knowledge in the case of officer is getting ridiculous.

Tonight, after chasing around looking for nice Poinsettias to give to my grandmother tomorrow, I stopped at the Sonic at Pittsburgh Mills for dinner. The car hop was full, so I got out and walked up, carrying as I always do, my Glock 22 at my side in a SERPA holster.

While I was getting ready to place my order, I was approached by a man in a PA Department of Corrections cap, but otherwise in plain clothes. He asked my to put the gun in my car, which I politely refused (I'll only comply with that if it's the property owner or at the request of the property owner) and when asked WHY I was OC'ing, I responded that 1) It's my right to, and 2) becasue it isn't illegal. He then asked me for my ID, which I refused as he didn't have a badge, and even though he claimed to be an officer, the department he claimed to be with was 40 miles away. The man huffed a bit and walked off, and I noticed him on his cell phone.

Knowing the inevitable, I got my LTCF and my Drivers License out of my wallet and put them in my front pocket.

5 or so minutes later, I was confronted by thee officers (Two Tarentum/Frazier officers and an East Dear officer) who demanded my ID, and my LTCF. I complied. They told me that OC was illegal, and that I *must* keep the gun concealed at all times. I told them, again calmly and politely, that OC was perfectly legal in Pennsylvania, and that if they requested it I would have no problem putting on a jacket or un-tucking my shirt to cover the firearm.

In the middle of this, the Manager of the sonic came out and asked what was going on. In response to being told about the complain against me OC'ing, she said "I don't have a problem with him having a gun" and walked back inside.

After a 30 minute rigmarole of running my License number, LCTF number and gun Serial Number, I was told to leave the property immediately and if I didn't I would be charged with Disorderly Conduct under PA 18 section 5503(a)4. He also said if he saw me OC'ing again, he would arrest me, again under 5503(a)4.

Now, I do plan on contacting the Tarentum Police Department and lodging a complaint over the officers attitude of "Your Wrong, We're Right, the end and we'll arrest you if you push the matter" even after being shown the PA UFA in the "Your Gun Rights" flyer from tbis site which I dug out about 15 minutes into the whole thing. (While they were reaching for straws trying to figure out if I was legal or not)

Should I be worried about the sheriff revoking my LTCF like gnbrotz? Should I pursue the matter further through Administrative Channels to be sure that the officers involved are properly educated? And if yes, how should I go about it?

Any help is appreciated!

[Pa. Patriot]

I'll comment more later, short on time right now!

The very first thing you should do, before complaining, etc. is file for all info on the incident via freedom of information act. Since there was a citizen complaint, there wil be dispatch record, phone recording, car radio traffic (or transcripts) etc.
If things went down the way you explain then the officers were a) wrong (obviously) and b) giving unlawful orders.

Get the info FIRST.

[RocketFoot]

Hopefully you got all the names and/or badge numbers of the people involved...like Pa Patriot said, gather info first (and asap!) Maybe contact the Sonic manager and see if she will be a witness...

[dragonofpa]

This stuff is getting redonkulous!

[Emptymag]

Originally Posted by RocketFoot

Hopefully you got all the names and/or badge numbers of the people involved...like Pa Patriot said, gather info first (and asap!) Maybe contact the Sonic manager and see if she will be a witness...

DEFINITELY.
The first guy who approached you is the one most likely to give you problems because you didn't immediately bow to his demands. It couldn't hurt to have a statement from the manager.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by RocketFoot

...Maybe contact the Sonic manager and see if she will be a witness...

Good idea.


What PD was this?

PS: you handled it well, were assertive but complied with the uniformed officers. I would have asked the idiot in the PADC hat to show me credentials or else shove off before I called the cops on him.

[lildobe]

Originally Posted by Pa. Patriot

What PD was this?

Tarentum Borough / Frazier Twp. (Tarentum handles all police duties in Frazier Twp)

The East Dear who was there as backup was a really nice guy though... Willing to listen and was ready to take me at my word that OC was legal.

[Montanya]

Dammnit this kinda shit is getting annoying. Either learn the law or get another job ffs. Tired of cops that play this shit, perhaps they should get some info that it is not disorderly conduct to open carry a firearm. Sons of bitches....grrr this just makes me so mad. I would certainly file a complaint with their department at the very minimum. I think also if I was on foot and they asked me for ID, I think I would assert my rights and refuse to provide the LTCF and ID and just give them a verbal id.

I think they at least need a training memo and some additional training on carry laws in PA.

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Montanya

... perhaps they should get some info that it is not disorderly conduct to open carry a firearm.

They are about to

Will be in the mail (certified) on Friday.

[XD45]

when the sonic manager said she didn't mind him having a gun, wouldn't that have ended it right there? If someone who owns the property, or is acting on behalf of the owner is fine with what your doing on private property what do the police have to do with it, and how can they make you leave?(ignoring the obvious fact he could be OCing on public property also) these cops as all the others are way outta line and have no clue on what the law is.