Hassled at the polls for OCing

[gnbrotz]

Well, after 5 months I had my first 'run in' with authority because of OCing.

When I went to my polling place tonight I was asked by the Constable there if "that was a weapon". I replied that it was. He said I would have to leave because weapons were not allowed in the polling place. I asked him what law this was based on. He said it was in the Voting Regulations, to which I replied "That applies to police officers". He said that was correct. He got the regulation book and asked if I would step outside to discuss the matter. I agreed. He turned to the page that had the regulation regarding the police and read it off to me. I told him that I agreed completely, BUT, I was not a police officer, just a private citizen. This seemed to surprise him a bit.

He then made a call to someone who would "Know for sure". The result of that call was that whoever he called was also unable to come up with anything specific preventing me from voting while carrying. When the call was done, the Constable asked me to please secure my weapon in my vehicle before voting, because it would make him "more comfortable". I asked him if I would be refused entry to vote if I did not, he said no, that I would be permitted to vote either way. As we went back up the steps and prepared to enter, he stated that he "Just couldn't understand why someone would need to bring a gun here, especially in this day and age." I told him that this wasn't something that I did just because I was coming to vote. I carry my firearm every day, wherever I go around town. I also told him that I was not attempting to convince him of my viewpoint, but since I was withing my legal right to do so, I was going to proceed on my own terms. I entered the polls and cast my vote.

When I was done voting, he was on the phone again, so I waited to speak with him some more. He was speaking with the County Commissioners office, who I could also hear "had never dealt with this situation before". The Constable suggested to them that this be researched further and if there wasn't already a resolution regarding this, that one be passed immediately so this didn't occur in the future. He mentioned to them that "The judges did the same thing so you can't bring guns into the courthouses". When he hung up, I told him that the courthouse ban was covered in the Uniform Firearms Act, which was state law, not something the judges had done on their own. I then asked again for his name so I could write it down. He refused to give it to me, because he said he already did at the beginning of our conversation. I then specifically asked him, "So you are refusing to give me your name again?". He said, "Yes". What he couldn't have known, is that I didn't really need it as I had heard him identify himself to the County Commissioner's office while speaking with them. I offered to be in touch with him so that if I was indeed incorrect on the law, I could educate myself. He told me, "Don't worry, I've got your name."

He seemed upset enough about the whole thing that I expect him to personally follow up on getting something passed to prohibit this in the future. I didn't think it was worth my time to go into the whole preemption thing with him, since my vote was cast, and I clearly wasn't going to convert him. Hopefully if and when the County Commissioners look into this "incident", they will discover that preemption prevents them from doing so.

Since this is my first real opposition, I'd appreciate any assistance or suggestions in drafting letters to the appropriate parties to help educate those who need it.

[soberbyker]

+4 rep points from me for standing up for your rights, the right to vote and carry, well done.

[XD45]

WOW! Bravo Bravo!! I truly applaud how you handled it. Rep is not nearly enough to show how wonderfully I feel you handled that situation, but you'll get it anyway.. once again GREAT job, it was your right and you weren't breaking any laws therefore didn't have to back down so you didn't.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

Hopefully if and when the County Commissioners look into this "incident", they will discover that preemption prevents them from doing so.

Since this is my first real opposition, I'd appreciate any assistance or suggestions in drafting letters to the appropriate parties to help educate those who need it.

it seems he thinks the county commissioners can pass an ordinace to prevent people from OCing at polls, so he might try to get them to.

you might want to consider sending a letter to the commissioners explaining what happened and that you think the constable might contact them about passing such an ordinance.

then follow up with something like:

In light of this, I just wanted to make sure you are aware of the pre-emption clause in the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act which specifically prohibits counties or municipalities from passing their own laws regarding carrying guns. For your reference, I have included the text of the preemption clause below:

TITLE 18
PA CRIMES CODES

§6120. Limitation on the Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition.

(a) General rule. No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this commonwealth.

(a. l) No right of action.

(1) No political subdivision may bring or maintain an action at law or in equity against any firearms or ammunition manufacturer, trade association or dealer for damages, abatement, injunctive relief or any other relief or remedy resulting from or relating to either the lawful design or manufacture of firearms or ammunition or the lawful marketing or sale of firearms or ammunition to the public.

(2) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to prohibit a political subdivision from bringing or maintaining an action against a firearms or ammunition manufacturer or dealer for breach of contract or warranty as to firearms or ammunition purchased by the political subdivision.

(b) Definitions.-As used in this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in this subsection:

"Dealer." The term shall include any person engaged in the business of selling at wholesale or retail a firearm or ammunition.

"Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in section 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles).

"Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

i would also send a copy of the letter to whoever is in charge of elections in your county and probably to the constable in question if you know how to contact him.

of course, be polite and end the letter with something like "thank you for your time and consideration in this matter."

good luck and THANK YOU for standing up for my (and everyone's) rights.

[gnbrotz]

E-mail sent to my (pro-gun) State Rep.:

Dear Representative Rock,

On Tuesday, October 23, I had a chance to speak with you briefly in your office while visiting the Capitol with other PA gun owners to lobby for the support of pending pro-gun legislation. I remember telling you that you would be getting some letters or phone calls from me. I didn't expect that the topic of this e-mail would be one I would encounter and feel the need to share with you. Let me start by giving you an idea where I'm coming from:

* I'm a gun owner.
* I hold a Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms.
* Except at work, where I'm prohibited, I carry all of the time (unless I'm going somewhere where the law prohibits it).
* Most of the time, I do not conceal my weapon. PA law does not require LTCF holders to do so, and "Open Carry" on foot is legal in PA even without being licensed (unless in Philly).

<snip.....insert story as posted above, with minor revisions>

I researched this issue prior to election day, so I would know where I stood legally. I understand that as a gun owner, it is my responsibility to be aware of the laws regarding my carrying of a weapon, and abide by them. I also expect any LEO's I encounter to do the same, and not allow their personal feelings on an issue to influence their actions. I do not appreciate the intimidating tone he took with me, even after it was clear he could not articulate any violation on my part. The Constable's Code of Ethics (as published by the PA State Constable Association) includes the point, "I recognize my duty to protect the constitutional rights of all people." This was clearly the opposite of my experience this evening.

I would appreciate any input and assistance your office could provide on properly educating the Constables, County Commissioners and election officials in Franklin County in regards to the legal exercise of my 2nd Amendment Rights, and the 'Preemption Clause' contained in the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act.

Sincerely,
My personal contact info

[cz_40p]

In Pennsylvania the office of Constable is largely an anachronism from the past. One of their few official duties are to be present at the polls (because police can't). Other than work the polls, constables official duties are to serve the District Justices. Kinda of like a junior tipstaff, warrant server and occasional transporter of a prisoners. Constables have little arrest power in PA. What little arrest power they have is directly tied to the warrant in their hand. They can arrest for "crimes on view", much like a citizens arrest. They CAN NOT do traffic stops. They CAN NOT have emergency lights on their vehicles. Constables in PA must buy all of their own equipment,uniforms and vehicles. They are paid a set fee for every warrant served, and a fee for "working the polls". They are one step above Duane "The DOG" Chapman.

Most constables in PA never discharge the office they are elected to. Less than half of constables have taken the added training , or carry the liability insurance required to carry a weapon. These uncertified constables can however work the polls. Elections are their one shot at playing policeman. The main job of a constable at a polling place is make folks refrain from distributing campaign material inside the polls.

Anyone can run for constable in their ward. Twelve signatures on a petition, and you are on the ballot. Most folks just run to get the badge! You know the old guy who pulls out a badge, when the kids skateboard past his property. There are a constables who do make a job out of it. They are mostly confined to serving paper for the minor judiciary (District Court).

The PA Constables lack of substantive training puts them a great disadvantage when dealing with the public. In my opinion, most constables in Pennsylvania are cop wanna-be's. They are looked upon with disdain by most of the Law Enforcement community.

Quite frankly the office needs to be abolished in PA.

[Emptymag]

gnbrotz,
You are my hero.
(Gimme a minute and I'll update my sig line)

Thanks for sharing and thanks for going into as much detail as you did.
Excellent post.

Your letter sent to Representative Rock was very well written, and you should be proud of yourself for handling everything in the manner described in your post.

You didn't mention your wife... was she with you?
I hope she can respect you for standing up for what is right.
I just had my wife read your post, and her response was "GOOD for him!"

[cz_40p]

By the way constable elections are coming up again in 2008 or 09. The office is for six years. Why don't you run against this buffoon. It won't take many votes to get his position. Then you can work the polls the "right" way.

Maybe that is why he didn't want to reveal his name!

[Nate]

wish I had seen this post before I voted I may have done the same thing. Props to you!!!

[vetter3006]

Way to go, great job standing up for your right to carry.
I carried concealed when I voted today and of course had zero problems at the polls.
My polling was at a public school and I did not worry about it I just did my thing and left nobody even knew I carried.