Hassled at the polls for OCing

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI...1.009.000..HTM
§ 6109. Licenses.

....(i) An individual whose character and reputation is
such that the individual would be likely to act in a
manner dangerous to public safety.

Question: who determines character and reputation and how is it determined?

Hawk,

[JayBell]

the CLEO for your area, and your references most likely.

Back in 91 or so, when i first signed up for a LTCF, i was given a card to give to my local PD.

the card came back "Applicant not known to this dept".

That kind of worried me, so i asked about it.

Apparently, thats a good thing.
it meant I lived there 22yrs and the cops had never heard of me.

As the Chief explained to me, theres a lot of stuff that point to your reputation and character but may not end up in a actual oourt conviction to deny you a license.

Say, the cops have been at your house 10 times this year because you are drunk and screaming at the wife, nothing that got you arrested, but maybe cited for disorderly conduct.

Maybe you are always in verbal altercations with the neighbors, again, no arrests, maybe citations for disturbing the peace....and it's aparent that you are the problem, not the neighbors.

Maybe theres a lot of interaction between you and the LEOs in the area that points very clearly to the fact that you may lack self control, or display extremely poor judgement, like a lot of tickets for reckless style high speed driving, or DUI, or such.

might even be something like due to a mental or physical illness, you are on serious meds that affect your self control, and judgement.

all of this kind of thing is definitely relevant to assessing your character, and may lead to having a permit denied.

I'm not saying that all the above means you are gonna pop and hose the neighborhood, but the cops opinions are they may not want to risk it, even tho you have a clean legal conviction record.

I support the right of everyone to own a gun, but if you are unstable and unable to control yourself, perhaps you shouldn't carry one

[chesire17201]

Well, First let me offer my most sincere empathy to gnbrotz, who i have had the pleasure of meeting once and quite enjoyed conversing with. Hell, he's the reason I bought my blackhawk serpa.

Secondly, brotz if you remember our conversation, i made mention of *most* (not all mind you) law enforcement and the court sysytem of FRANKLIN county, and how the will and do screw with people. You are now unfortunately experienceing this first hand. and it is not a fun situation, i feel for ya, i really do, cause you are really making a great impact on the open carry aspect around here.

Next, I am not sure how familiar he is with the UFA and other gun laws, but I can tell you from personal exp. that Chris Sheffield here in chambersburg is one hell of an attorney. His # is 1-866-869-8118. He's not the cheapest, but he is FAST and GOOD. and i'm sure he would be more than willing to at least look into the CIVIL aspect of this as well, as it seems to me that there may be a need for such after your LTCF is returned, after all this is causing you mental, emotional stress, as well as time and legal expenses, etc.etc., all of which will need to be recovered, and on top of that, maybe it's time that Franklin county learned it's lesson and to leave the LAW ABIDING citizens alone.

Lastly, i don't have muchto donate, but will try my best, but if at any point and time you need a character witness for anything, I am available to help.

You have my personal email, use it if needed, and know where i hang out on friday nights, feel free to swing in, even it's just to B.S., but mostly, get an attorney, and fight this.........then sue the hell out of em'.........

As a sidenote is this on Opencarry dot org? if not, you should also post this there......

[mikepro8]

Very sorry for your unnecessary blight, gnbrotz. Here's what gets me... "apparent illegal activity." Uhm... doenst apparent mean APPARENT??? and doesnt the sheriff have to cite a specific reason? apparent does not equal specific. "Apparently, I won the lottery." is the NOT the same as "I won the lottery." It means it has yet to be proven to be true. How can they revoke for something that hasnt been proven true? The dude never took it out of his holster, which in my opinion, was the smart move. The gun is much safer on your hip than in anyone's car, EVER.

[chesire17201]

Originally Posted by mikepro8

Very sorry for your unnecessary blight, gnbrotz. Here's what gets me... "apparent illegal activity." Uhm... doenst apparent mean APPARENT??? and doesnt the sheriff have to cite a specific reason? apparent does not equal specific. "Apparently, I won the lottery." is the NOT the same as "I won the lottery." It means it has yet to be proven to be true. How can they revoke for something that hasnt been proven true? The dude never took it out of his holster, which in my opinion, was the smart move. The gun is much safer on your hip than in anyone's car, EVER.

Agreed, but let's not forget where this is, If you never had to deal with the legal system in Pa., let alone in Franklin co. consider yourself lucky.

Also this is along the lines of denying persons a LTCF and failing PICS beacause you COULD have been sentenced to more than 1 yr, not that you actually were, but COULD have been, in all reality a conviction isn't even neccessary, just a charge, and you COULD be sentenced......ugh......you get my drift......

[Pyrotek85]

Originally Posted by mikepro8

Here's what gets me... "apparent illegal activity." Uhm... doenst apparent mean APPARENT??? and doesnt the sheriff have to cite a specific reason? apparent does not equal specific. "Apparently, I won the lottery." is the NOT the same as "I won the lottery." It means it has yet to be proven to be true. How can they revoke for something that hasnt been proven true?

Because the man with the badge said it's true, thats why.

I've got a feeling the sheriff owed the constable a favor or something, this definitely sounds fishy.

[KeithPA]

GNBROTZ

If I remember didn't you send in a flyer about open carry to the sheriff's office and never got a reply? I can't remember, but that certainly will help you out.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

How do I actually go about appealing the revocation? I'm assuming an attorney is advisable for this as well?

Could there be possible additional criminal charges?

Stop asking for legal advice on this forum and retain an attorney. From everything I've read, you did not violate any statutes but nevertheless, if you want your LTC reinstated and head off any criminal charges, RETAIN AN ATTORNEY.

[Punisher]

add me to the list of people that help out in any way i can........ hopefully when you win this case the effects will be far reaching............

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by Punisher

add me to the list of people that help out in any way i can........ hopefully when you win this case the effects will be far reaching............

Hopefully.

This is serious folks.
Time to "walk the walk" in PA and stand up for our rights whether you use them or not.

According gnbrotz account, we have a constable AND a sheriff acting flatly outside the law and we need to make sure they are disciplined and put back in their place and then broadcast their shame wide and far.
We need to wait until gnbrotz gets the rest of the information, probably Monday, and see what his council advises him.