Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > Concealed & Open Carry

Concealed & Open Carry Discuss all aspects of carrying firearms here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old October 27th, 2007
Lycanthrope's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Pennsylvania
(Lawrence County)
Posts: 5,416
Rep Power: 316
Lycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond reputeLycanthrope has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Keep this up....it needs to be a "sticky" somewhere.


Lycangoodreviewsthrope
__________________

I taught Chuck Norris to bump-fire.
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #22 (permalink)  
Old October 27th, 2007
Koli01's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Monroeville, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Age: 46
Posts: 2,034
Rep Power: 136
Koli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond reputeKoli01 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanthrope View Post
Keep this up....it needs to be a "sticky" somewhere.


Lycangoodreviewsthrope

I agree. This thread and the one about the compass should be stickied.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old October 28th, 2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Selden, New York
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 23
watchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Thank you guys,

I did this piece for another forum, two years ago. I thought I will share with you guys. It just list the most popular positions for shooting with a pistol and light.

Shooting in low light


I am going to explain how to employ the useful techniques of using a flashlight with a pistol, especially useful for those flashlights that have a tactical switch.

As many of the members already have a Surefire of two or three batteries with a tactical switch or a similar one of another brand, going from 60 to 200 lumens, I am going to explain the two most popular techniques. One is the Harries which I have already explained in the previous post in conjunction with the Borealis 1050 lumens light.

The Harries technique





Michael Harries invented this position and it is considered one of the first positions ever that coordinates the use of the flashlight using the two hands.
For using with tactical switch lights (with a switch in the tail), the flashlight is grasped with the left hand around the body and the thumb will activate the switch.
For lights with switch on the top (as the Magcharger, Stinger and Borealis) the index finger is used to press the switch down without clicking it on (if you drop your light you don’t want it to illuminate you)
The back of the hands are pressed together and maintain an isometric tension to help control the recoil of the gun. Your wrists will be crossed and the light will be parallel or close to the muzzle of the gun.

The Roger-Surefire




Holster maker, ex FBI agent, and competition shooter Bill Rogers teamed up with Surefire to adapt a rubber grommet or washer to the Surefire 6 Z (now available in most combat models of Surefire and copied by others light makers).
The position is also called the cigar position, as you grasp the body of the flashlight like a cigar, with the index and middle finger. The tail cap is resting on the fleshy part below your thumb and a little pressure back on the rubber ring will activate the light (the tail cap button resting in that part below your thumb will switch the light on).
That position will let you grasp the hand shooting the pistol with three fingers of the left hand, and it is the only position that let you use a two-handed grip on the gun

The Chapman technique




Ray Chapman was the first IPSC world champion. He invented his position for use with the Kel-Lites of the 1970’s (probably the first high quality Police Flashlight) that have a sliding switch on top of the barrel. It is still a great position to use for those that don’t want to cross the wrists as in the Harries position when using a big flashlight.
It is well suited for the Maglites or Stingers and for the modification of the Maglite like the Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight.

You just grasp the flashlight as you usually do, with your thumb in the switch and your fingers circling the barrel and you bring it up to index your fingernails with the fingernails of the shooting hand.

In my other post I have mentioned the old FBI technique which is to separate the flashlight high and away from you in order to confuse you opponent about your position, however it will not work on hallways and narrow places, so is better to have knowledge of all the positions to fit them to each particular situation.

Another technique that doesn’t offer any support to the shooting hand but it can be very useful when using a pistol with lousy sights (original 1911, Luger, etc) is the one I used more than 40 years ago when I started combat shooting.
It indexes the light on top of my head, letting the light fall on a line from the sights to the target. Even the minuscule back up .380 or the Baby Browning sights gets illuminated using this ridiculous position.

In closing, I would like to say that in my opinion lights with less than 60 lumens are out of the new low light fighting techniques.
For my belt light I will prefer to have a minimum of 200 lumens, using the Surefire C-3 and the P-91 lamp as my favorite if in civilian clothing and a Bear Cub if in uniform (as the bigger head of the Bear Cub is not easy to conceal.

But if I have to clear a big room, warehouse or backyard, I prefer a light with more power. My Surefire M-6 with the 500 lumens lamp will do, but I prefer even more lumens to really blind, disorient, and roast my opponent. That is when I use the Borealis 1050 lumens light.

These positions I have shown here will work with big lights too (except for the cigar position), the thing you will have to remember is that when you need a light in a hairy situation you need it badly and that two is better than one, so a big light in your hand to blind you opponent and another smaller light in your belt as a back up is better than only one. (Two is one and one is none).

Cheers
Watchmaker
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old October 31st, 2007
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Bushkill, Pennsylvania
(Pike County)
Posts: 22
Rep Power: 0
TheIceMan is on a distinguished road
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Dang, Now how do I choose.
__________________
Know Guns,
Know Peace..
No Guns,
No Peace!
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old October 31st, 2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Selden, New York
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 23
watchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

AIMSHOT, NOVA
TX 65, FLASHLIGHT

Here is another of the tactical lights running with two 123’s batteries, it is made by Aimshot and is warrantee to be waterproof to a 100 meters.
It goes by the name of NOVA in some catalogues and by TX 65 in others. It is billed to be 6500 candlepower which I doubt very much it is that high.
The reflector is smooth on my unit, but is small in relation to others reflector such as the G-2-6P or even the Streamlight TL-2 or Night Fighter II, which make the beam much more flood than in the other lights.

NOVA XENON ILLUMINATOR





I recently tested it against my Streamlight Night Hunter II (another of the tactical two 123’s batteries lights) and with new batteries in both lights the Nova was throwing a weaker beam against my usual deer target at 26 yards.

NOVA BEAMSHOT



STREAMLIGHT NIGHT HUNTER II BEAMSHOT



I have had this light for a couple of years, but I haven’t use it much, the claim in some catalogue that the run time is five hours is greatly exaggerated, I don’t think it will made one hour, although I have been disappointed by the performance of many new 123’s batteries lately, they seem to come with little charge on them, especially the bargain batteries that are made in China for one of the web battery places.
I recommend that you run your tactical lights or flashlights with good quality batteries such as the Surefire or Duracell brands.

The light is well made, with double O rings in tail cap and head and a rubber cover in main body and tail cap, but with a metal anodized head.
I don’t have a way to test the claims of been waterproof to 100 meters, but I dunked it in my big water glass for several hours, without getting any water inside.




The light sold for several years for $50 USD but I have seen it recently dropped to around $30 which is more in tone with other quality lights such as the Surefire G-2.

The tail cap is not a clicky, and that is a good thing, it is the usual turn it to “on” or press for momentary.
I like the light but I think that the Streamlight Night Hunter II or the TL II are better lights overall, I will even prefer a Scorpion or a G-2 in that price range.

Best regards
Watchmaker
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old November 4th, 2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Selden, New York
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 23
watchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

THE STREAMLIGHT SCORPION

I like the little Scorpion a lot, to be honest; it is a powerful (at 6,500 candle powers) light (at 4.4 oz), not too long at 4.9 inches, and with a great feel in the hand thanks to the rubber boot that covers the body.
This rubber boot can be especially beneficial in the winter when others lights left in the trunk are too cold to hold without gloves.





The switch is momentary and click on, exactly as I want my switches; it is located in the back of the light and protected by the rubber boot.
The momentary works well. The click is in my case, though, is too difficult to operate with my big thumb and I have to click it with my index finger.
But rarely do I use the click, as this light can be used as a “tactical” light and the momentary mode is preferred when using it with a gun. (You don’t want to drop the light “on” and that it will illuminate you or your partner, which is the reason to use the momentary).

The light uses two 123’s batteries and run a xenon bulb for one hour. This xenon bulb is quite small (a spare is located in the bulb holder inside the head). I will hate to have to change it in less than normal conditions; for starters you have to pry a cover from the bulb holder to access the spare, you will have a few small parts in your hands, and you will need calm conditions and plenty of light to do the job properly.

For those situations I really prefer the big bulbs with reflector included of the Surefires’ or even the smaller but easy to handle bulb of the E2e’s.

Why I consider this so important? Well, the bulb is rated for 5 hours of life, which is extremely short.

I say I like this light, but it is really not rational because we have much better designs for a tactical light. The little Scorpion will roll out on a table that is not perfectly flat, for lack of an anti-roll bezel. Surefires are much better in this department.

The beam can be adjusted by rotating the head (the filament of the bulb will go lower or higher inside the reflector), in reality I have the light set to maximum throw that will not show any artifacts and I don’t twist the head at all because the quality of the beam will be spoiled by artifacts and black spots.
This light is good for throw (considering the small reflector), and the quality of the beam, when set at near maximum throw, is good, producing a nice round circle due to the short filament.

The lens is polycarbonate. I would like to see it changed to Pyrex, but that is only my personal feeling that this light should deserve a better lens.
I bought mine two years ago from Cabela’s and it cost me $38.00; I think that the price is right for a quality made American product.
The bulbs run about $6.00 each and I also consider them in price, they are so bright because they are overdriven (hence their short life of 5 hours).

I have seen a holster for the light made out of Cordura Nylon, but I haven’t tried it and I don’t know if is any issues in removing the light quickly, the rubber boot cause me trouble when removing the light from tight pockets (read Jean’s) but is okay when the pocket is from s dress pants.
I also have seen filters made for this light in red, blue and yellow for those that would like to penetrate the deer’s woods with a minimum of light pollution.

As always the beam shots are coming from 26 yards away and my camera tripod is in the same position, 12 feet from the deer and 18 from the bear.
I have also included as way of comparison the beam shot with the P-60 lamp out of a Surefire Centurion C-2 (read it also Surefire 6P, Z-2, G-2 D-2 etc).

SCORPION’S BEAM



P-60 LAMP FROM a Surefire Centurion II



You will notice that the beam of the Scorpion is more concentrated than the P-60 lamp, making the target clearer at this distance, for tactical situations at short range the P-60 lamp is better for the extra flood, it will be easier to clear a room with a Surefire without the need to pan the light to cover it all.

Cheers,
Watchmaker
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old November 4th, 2007
Shawn.L's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Posts: 5,473
Rep Power: 464
Shawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond reputeShawn.L has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Great, when I first got into guns I thought "damn, I am going to spend all my money on guns" then it was ammo, then accesories, now I have to get obsessed with flashlights !!!!!! i guess i will go flashlight shopping this weekend :-)
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old November 7th, 2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Selden, New York
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 23
watchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

I did this piece for a hunting forum, but these two will make great car's lights or entry tactical.

TWO, BLOOD TRACKING LIGHTS
BEAR CUB 220 LUMENS AND SUREFIRE M-4, 225 LUMENS

Hi guys,
I am the official tracker for our little group of seven bow hunters. Because of the small patch of private woods that we have for hunting, and to preserve the unpolluted area, all tracking is done only after dark when the hunt is over.
Our rules are that no more than two persons will retrieve the deer; this is to keep the woods as free of human odor as possible, not to spoil our chances for the next morning hunt.

I have had a lot of experience with blood tracking lights, since my father first taught me how to do it with the old gas Coleman lantern.
One thing that the old timers had right was the need for intense WHITE light. As time change, there was not need anymore to go back to the truck for the old lantern; the new crop of intense white light pioneered by the tactical lights used for SWAT and Special Forces can do the job of making that blood trail as clear as during the day.

At this point, a word about the blue lights now in use for this task, and is that in many situations they are completely useless, as I learned when I tested one of them by following a wounded bear in the Maine woods in late August. The black drop of blood blended so well with the dark green vegetation of the Maine woods, that it was impossible to track it using that light.
BLUE LIGHT




WHITE LIGHT




I am a flashaholic, a disease that is kept in check only by buying and using lights, as I own more than two hundred of them; I am well aware what is good and for what purpose. That is why I am telling my readers that for blood tracking you need a very intense white light of not less than 200 lumens.
That figure rules out LED lights, not only they don’t make the grade in lumens output, they are poor penetrators in fog and are poor distance throwers.
Enter high output incandescent lights with good throw.
Not many of them out there, Surefire for sure was the pioneer with the M-4 and the M-6 lights; the M-6 with the 350 lumens lamp can run for 60 minutes, but it uses six of the expensive 123’s batteries, costing $12 per hour run. The M-4 with the 225 lumens lamp is what I have used for years with satisfaction, except for the cost of $8 per hour, as some tracking jobs sometimes took more than 60 minutes.

THE SUREFIRE M-4 AND THE RECHARGEABLE BEAR CUB




The M-4 is 9 inches long and quite light in weight, it have a stippled reflector that diffuses the light into a flood, which in my opinion is more flood than it is needed, I would like to see this light marketed with a smooth reflector for more useable throw, as sometimes the wounded deer circle back toward the open fields, and to spot one lying dead in the middle of the field more throw is needed.
For more about the Surefire M-4 ($330) contact Surefire.

BEAMSHOTS FROM 26 YARDS, CAMERA AT 12 FEET FROM DEER

BEAMSHOT OF THE SUREFIRE M-4




The rechargeable Bear Cub is made by Black Bear Flashlights; it uses two state of the art Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries for 90 minutes run time outputting 220 lumens. This light is made
using the “host” of a maglite 2 C, which means than after years of hard use when the light is scratched or dented, you can renew it just by buying a new “host” for about $14.00.
The light is also 9 inches long, it has a smooth reflector that concentrates the beam and shoots it a long way, no problem with this light in spotting a dead deer in the middle of the field. The light is sold with a Li Ion charger that will charge the batteries in 3 ½ hours, so it is no problem to have it ready for the next morning, fully charged. These batteries last for 1,000 recharges so you have 1500 hours of use before needing another set of batteries. Before the M-4 can run for 1500 hours it will have spend $12,000 in batteries!
Extra lightweight Lithium Ion rechargeable batteries cost $30 per pair, so carrying an extra pair in a pocket will give you another 90 minutes of white intense tracking light.
When these lights are not used for tracking they make a formidable tactical light for home defense, with the capability of momentarily blinding an opponent.
The Bear Cub is available from the maker for $130 shipped, for more about this light contact Black Bear Flashlights.

BEAMSHOT OF THE BEAR CUB





Both of these lights will beat handily a 250,000 lumens spotlight; they are very convenient to carry in a pack or fanny-pack or even a large pocket. I use a red light to enter the woods without polluting them with light; I make a habit of always carrying my Bear Cub in my pack, ready for the most important chore of the hunting season, the retrieval of a wounded deer. I think that is our obligation to the game to make our best efforts to retrieve the deer we shoot, the use of the proper tool for tracking blood is imperative to aid in such efforts.

All the best
Watchmaker
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old November 8th, 2007
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Bozeman, Montana
Posts: 19
Rep Power: 0
dmd08 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

Are you not Black Bear Flashlights?
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old November 14th, 2007
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Selden, New York
Posts: 68
Rep Power: 23
watchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond reputewatchmaker has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LIGHTS FOR CCW AND LAW ENFORCEMENT

A HAIR TIE FOR YOUR TACTICAL LIGHT

Hi guys,
Many tactical lights come with a lanyard, so you can let go of them while you are reloading or opening doors, etc.

However these long lanyards give the light too much freedom of movement, and sometimes can cause some problems as they can get hang on something or as I saw it happening, colliding the light into your head when trying to clear a stove-pipe jam.

The inexpensive hair tie can be knotted into a light that doesn’t have a point of attachment, so it more practical in all situations.
Its short length, help to keep more control on your light, and it is very easy to use; one flip of your wrist and the light is in the back of your hand, another flip and is back into your palm.

The pictures show it attached to my thumb (due to my large hands is in my case more comfortable) but it also can be used in the middle finger, or even in the index finger.

Visit your GF or wife and give the hair tie a try.










Cheers
Watchmaker
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shotgun Lights Mtbkski Shotguns 13 December 6th, 2007 03:18 PM
Volunteer Opportunities in Law Enforcement? Montanya General 18 August 20th, 2007 02:56 PM
Georgia: Enforcement Works Lambo National 2 July 11th, 2007 10:50 AM
Firemen with blue lights on vehicles HiredGoon Pennsylvania 57 June 20th, 2007 01:57 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.