PA LTCF Incident

[Gunnutz13]

JUNE 29, 2009 1045am

CITIZEN / LEO Interaction

Monday morning, daily walk with my yellow lab, Brook. Times and routes vary, but the distance is usually within 1 ½ miles start to finish. As always, I put a firearm IWB …stick my PA LTCF permit in my pocket…put the leash on the dog, and head out the door. Neighborhood is single homes with well manicured lawns and upper middle class, ‘wave when you walk by people’. Having lived here for going on eight years, there are still many people that live within a ½ mile that I never met or even seen. Kinda like it that way… nobody in your business, don’t want to be in theirs.

As the dog and I walk out the door, the way she leads usually determines our route; today is up the hill, across the street, first street, we make a left. Walking for about ten minutes, lab decides it’s time to do her duty, kind of pulls me to the curb, and finishes. I pull a plastic bag from my pocket, crouch down and gather the duty, and walk it over to a refuse can about ten feet away. The lab and I finish the walk and after I return home I tell my wife that I’m running over to the post office. I finish business there, and return home.

Wife opens the front door as I hit the porch and calmly says that the Abington Township Police had been there about 15 minutes ago and wanted to talk to me. She proceeds to tell me that someone had called them about a man walking a dog who had a gun. When they arrived and knocked on my door, my wife was asked if she was ok and if she was alone, and since she was partially inside the doorway, if she would please step out onto the porch. That’s when she noticed four uniformed township patrolmen…one talking to her, one behind him, one on the walkway partially obscured by the hedges, and the last making his way around the side of the house to the backyard. All of the officers had their holsters unsnapped and hands on their duty weapons. The patrolman in charge (pic) then told the wife of the call to the station regarding a man walking his dog, carrying a gun. My wife related that I had just walked our lab and that I returned from that walk and went to the post office, and that I would be back within the hour. They also asked if we owned a gun, and if she knew it was in the house or with me. My wife was sharp…not wanting to relate any information that could escalate the situation, her reply was that “my husband will be glad to answer any questions you have when he returns” …and left it at that. The PIC wrote a phone number down for me to call when I returned, noting that a return visit would ensue if a call was not received within two hours.

After discussing the event with her, in which we both agreed that while we felt “our rights” were kind of being stepped on, beings that I did nothing wrong, and had every right to carry a firearm ( PA LTCF ), and the police were going to pursue the incident no matter what, I made the call to what turned out to be a dispatcher…gave my name and address…and told her that a patrolman had requested a return call. The dispatcher was polite, said thanks, and that she would notify the patrolman. Ten minutes later, a knock on the door brought me face to face with a single patrolman, who I greeted with my name and outstretched hand. The officers’ demeanor went from stern to friendly in about two seconds as I stepped onto my porch from the house, closing the door on my now barking lab. Before he had a chance to say a word, I informed him that I had indeed walked my dog that morning, giving him the route that I had taken, and told him I was in possession of a valid PA LTCF permit, which I promptly pull from my back pocket. He then asked if I had carried my “firearm” ( not gun or weapon ) with me when I walked the dog, to which I replied yes, and proceeded to tell him that I usually carry concealed, and reminded him that per PA law, I could open carry if desired. Then I said that the dog had done it’s business in front of one of the houses on the next block, and that I had crouched down to clean-up the dog duty, to which he replied…“say no more…I can figure out what happened” as he smiled and nodded knowingly…and at the same time, waved away my permit without even glancing at it…and then he replied…”people !!”…and bowed and shook his head. At that point, our discussions turned to the firearm, with my offering him a glance at my Kel Tec PF-9, which was still clipped strongside kidney, under my tank top.
He broadly smiled and said that he also carried a Kel Tec…a P32 as a bug and that his wife carried the P3AT. Then our talk turned to his duty weapon, a S&W 4006, which he related that he carried condition one, safety on. I asked if it still had a magazine disconnect, IIRC, and he gestured with a knowing nod that it did indeed and related a story of that feature saving a fellow officers life when a perp had tried to grab his gun, the officer had enough presence of mine to hit the mag release, drop the mag, and made the chambered cartridge a mute point as the perp pointed and tried to fire the weapon as the officer regained control and backup arrived. After some more friendly banter, my wife walked onto the porch to let me know she was going to the supermarket, at which point I introduced her to ‘Bob’…who then said he had to get going and said good day, and walked down the path to his patrol car.

All in all, a very positive situation…though I did lay awake last night and wondered how it all could have went sideways if I had been home when all four LEO’s rolled up to the house, with a report of “man with a gun”.

[tlgpa]

Originally Posted by Gunnutz13

four uniformed township patrolmen…one talking to her, one behind him, one on the walkway partially obscured by the hedges, and the last making his way around the side of the house to the backyard. All of the officers had their holsters unsnapped and hands on their duty weapons.

You didn't ask what the reported call was? A simple "man with a gun walking his dog" call doesn't warrant four officers with hands on weapons.

[son of the revolution]

Based on your relation of the event , the caller is almost certain to be someone you " know " on some level . Otherwise , how did the local PD know to go to your house in their search for the " scary man " ? They sure as hell didnt go door to door looking for you . At the least the person that called knows you well enough to put the body to a specific address . It may not have even been someone from the house you stopped in front of . Could've been someone driving by , someone walking by , or someone you may think of as a "friendly " neighbor with an axe to grind . Just something to consider ....glad everything went relatively well for you .

[Roscoe]

Wow glad it went well.

I wonder if they got back in touch with the anti nut and explained that you have a LTCF because we live in a free country. I bet you must look real suspicious there walking a dog and carrying a firearm.

Some people.......

[tlgpa]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

I wonder if they got back in touch with the anti nut and explained that you have a LTCF because we live in a free country.

I would hope they didn't do that. It's no ones business if he has a LTCF or not.
If he was reported as driving recklessly, we wouldn't expect the police to get in touch with the reporter and explain that he had a drivers license.


I'd imagine the 911 caller embelished the story of the "scary man", hence the 4 officers with hands on guns. I wonder if the police got back in touch with the caller and lectured them on embelishing a story to 911?

[Neo31rex31]

Issue does not constitute 4 police officers.....you were perfectly legal. None of that was warranted.

[jcabin]

Thats funny they got a MWAG call. Thats disproven by the fact they came to YOUR house. What happened, is some quivering coward who knows you, called and said they saw you with a gun and thought it would be a good idea to call the police.

From now on make sure you walk your dog there and try to get him to take a dump. Open Carry too.

[Roscoe]

Originally Posted by tlgpa

I would hope they didn't do that. It's no ones business if he has a LTCF or not.
If he was reported as driving recklessly, we wouldn't expect the police to get in touch with the reporter and explain that he had a drivers license.


I'd imagine the 911 caller embelished the story of the "scary man", hence the 4 officers with hands on guns. I wonder if the police got back in touch with the caller and lectured them on embelishing a story to 911?

Yep you are right well said point taken........

[xXWildPonyXx]

i guess you will have to just open carry from now on...... maybe even need to rig up a carry holster for your dog.... wouldnt getting home and cop being at your door for a "dog with a gun" call. that would be priceless

[s.bass73]

Hmmmm, maybe I'll swing by with my dog and take an OC stroll with you...............