applying for PA carry license (LTCF)

[27hand]

I was told by the LTCF issuing agent that open carry is illegal in this state.(another thread)

Are we seeing a pattern here?

It might be wise to carry a copy of some of these statutes in your vehicle or have Steve on speed dial

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[Steve in PA]

LOL........put me on speed dial, supply some credit card info and I'll only charge you $1.99 per minute.

[Kumarian]

Originally Posted by Siobhra

You can't carry in the Constitution Center in Philly. A place to celebrate the constitution, sorry, 2ed amendment not valid.

Is it me or do any of you find that ironic?

I thought I read somewhere that you could carry at the constitution center, but that you had to call and speak to the someone first. I don't remember where I read that and as I've never done it I don't have first had knowledge or all the details ... anyone wanna correct me?

[starblazer]

Originally Posted by Kumarian

I thought I read somewhere that you could carry at the constitution center, but that you had to call and speak to the someone first. I don't remember where I read that and as I've never done it I don't have first had knowledge or all the details ... anyone wanna correct me?

I thought I read that here somewhere too.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Kumarian

I thought I read somewhere that you could carry at the constitution center, but that you had to call and speak to the someone first. I don't remember where I read that and as I've never done it I don't have first had knowledge or all the details ... anyone wanna correct me?

There are two things at work here:

1. PA state law, and
2. This or that establishment or facility posting a "no firearms" sign.

The PA statutory list of no-CCW places is short. Those places, you steer clear of.

Since there is no local or county (and certainly not per-facility) pre-emption of state firearms laws, those sign have zero legal weight. If they tell you to leave, you leave. But you can't be arrested and charged for carrying there.

Note: there is also the set of FEDERAL firearm laws, which might say something about national parks -- be sure the Constitution Center isn't one of those.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by 27hand

It might be wise to carry a copy of some of these statutes in your vehicle

be careful about that. i got into a bit of an argument with a philly LEO on glocktalk in which he said that if he stopped me for open carrying and i started quoting PA state law it would only make it more likely that he would confiscate my gun and take me for a ride. (something about thinking i am "one of those constitution nutcases"...like believing in the constitution is a bad thing or something.)

i guess that particular officer didn't care about whether he was enforcing the law or making it up.

of course, that wouldn't stop me from quoting the law...and his response would probably only give me more ammo for a follow-up suit...but, i would really rather just not be illegally arrested in the first place.

[27hand]

LRT,

You are right.

I would hope it is common sense to not start telling the officer he doesn't know what he is talking about and "Looky here", "this is what i'm allowed to do".

A large part of what happens after an initial stop is passing what one officer described to me as the "Attitude Test".

You will probably not change an officers mind on what action he is going to take in any given situation let alone quoting laws to him.

When I have been stopped (2 mornings ago the latest), the officers have always been professional and kind of stiff. When everything checks out and you are "OK", you can notice a change in the officer"s demeaner. Maybe it's because he won't have to do any paperwork .

I'm working in Oakland at 5th and Craig and have lunch on a wall of the Church ( go figure,construction guys having lunch and watching the lunchtime attractions). Every now and then, beat Cops walk by and we all say Hi. If I have a chance, I'll ask them about their thoughts on open carry.

A little off topic but I work with different guys on every job and you should hear what they think they know about firearms and the Pa gun laws. I certainly don't know the laws other than regurgitating what people who do know the laws relay to me.

My stop the other morning was for an expired Reg sticker (my fault, lost it).
Reg. was up to date but no sticker. The Pgh Police stopped me. The Pitt police pulled up as backup. I had my holstered pistol wedged between my seat and the console. I probably would not have said a thing about having the firearm but thought they might see it and rather than have things go downhill, I said I had a LTCF and was carrying. He asked me for my card, asked me where the firearm was, told me to keep my hands on the wheel while he checked my info. His partner kept his light on my hands through the passenger window till the first guy told him everything checked out OK.

The guys tone of voice changed, he asked if I was headed to work and where I was headed. He told me I was free to go. No ticket and thanked me for letting him know about the firearm.

LRT, was that the 13 yr Phiily cop who was surprised to learn that open carry is legal even in philly with a LTCF. I think Rule10B5 posted up the actual case.

Later,

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[Kumarian]

Originally Posted by starblazer

I thought I read that here somewhere too.

I can't remember if it was here, but it might have been

[Kumarian]

Originally Posted by dgg9

The PA statutory list of no-CCW places is short. Those places, you steer clear of.

Where might one find this statutory list? I didn't get any kind of paperwork from Bucks County other then my actual LTCF. I don't think I have gone anywhere I shouldn't be going while carrying ... but I would rather learn now then when Im in the back of a police car.

http://www.packing.org just says "Court Houses" and "Primary and Secondary Schools and their Property" (I am guessing University's are alright to carry?)

I wasn't able to find anything at http://www.handgunlaw.us/ either.

Thanks for your help

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Kumarian

Where might one find this statutory list?

I don't guarantee it's 100% up to date, but:

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP1/18.Cp.9.html

...see:

§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
§ 913. Possession of firearm or other dangerous weapon in court facility.

And the school property prohibition has the

"(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose."

exclusion which seems to many to mean CCW is ok in schools...but no one wants to be the test case.

Thus for state law, the only area inarguably banned is the area in the court building surrounded by the metal detectors, so you're not likely to wander in there by accident...AND they must have a place to "check" your gun.

Arguably banned are school properties (up to high school, not college).

That's it. Nothing else. And no local pre-emption. After that, you have federal laws.