applying for PA carry license (LTCF)

[Lee-online]

if you stop in at the sheriffs office where they issue the LTC permits you can pick up a free copy of "Laws Relating to Firearms" thats where i got mine at.

[billy870m9]

ok if you say you know then you know...im sorry.....then my friend who had a licence to carry for self defence and brought it with him hunting should have fought the fine....

then why the heck do they have different reasons for the carry licence.....if its all the same why the confusion on their part?

[Steve in PA]

Wait, your telling me your friend got fined by the PGC for carrying a handgun on a LTC with the "purpose" being self-defense?

First, I'll ask what kind of handgun was he carrying? If it was a semi-auto pistol, then he would have been fined for carrying the semi-auto because you can not carry them while hunting, even with a LTC marked "self-defense".

Second, if he was not carrying a semi-auto, but a revolver and his LTC said "self-defense" he still could not have been fined. This is from page 20 of he 2006-2007 PA Hunting & Trapping Digest you get with your hunting license;

Firearms - handguns: A Sportsman's Firearm Permit or a License to Carry a Firearm is required to carry a handgun concealed or in a motor vehicle. Licenses to carry a Fiream are issued by county sheriffs or the Philadelphia Chief of Police. A License to Carry a Firearm does not entitle the licensee to spotlight wildlife while in possession of a firearm. A county treasurers issue Sportsman's Firearms Permits. A person holding a Sportsman's Firearms Permit may not carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle.

A LTC encompasses everything you are entitled to under the Sportsman's Permit. So carrying a handgun (revolver) while hunting with your LTC marked "self-defense" is perfectly legal.

A LTC does not have "classes" like your drivers license. Why do they have boxes to check? Probably just a way to keep statistics.

[Steve in PA]

Well, the problem is PA does not publish its laws on the internet. You have to rely on someone else to host a site that does. There are two that I have found;

http://www.packing.org and http://members.aol.com/StatutesPA/Index.html The problem with these is that they may not be up to date. The second one was last updated in 2004.

[billy870m9]

it was a semi.....but thats what is so confusing.......thats why i thought what you said was wrong.....its just that i dont understand every gun law out there, and most are so confusing

[Steve in PA]

There you have it. There is nothing confusing about it. You have your gun carry laws and your hunting laws. If he is going to play the game its his obligation to know the rules. He wasn't cited for carrying on a LTC that happened to be marked "self-defense", he was cited for hunting with an illegal weapon, that being the semi-auto pistol.

In his defense, PA does a poor job of making the gun laws available to the public. This does not excuse someone from not searching for them on their own. And usually, the person will ask the sheriff where they get their LTC, but as I have said before, the vast majority of sheriffs have no working knowledge of PA gun laws.

I've seen people post how a sheriff told them that is he ever saw someone open carry, he would lock them up for a mental evaluation!!!! LOL, oh how I would love to be within earshot when people like him talk.

Every year I get a book entitled "Pennsylvania Laws Relating to Firearms" from Senator Raphael J. Musto. www.senatormusto.com You can try contact his office through his website, either by email or phone and see if they can send you one. To my knowledge they are free. I really don't need the book as I have the PA Crimes Code to go by, but it does come in handy from time to time.

[billy870m9]

ok so u say you know your stuff......im just trying to put in my input....you dont have to act like your god of the gun....your a cop, your trained in it, you get a book on gun laws, and you even admit that the people that hand us our licence to carry dont know all of the laws......so give us a break if were wrong, i do know some things about gun laws.......and how can you tell me that a reading cop wont have a problem if my reason of carry is hunting, if im walking a city street with a loaded gun.....it doesnt make sense....but there are better ways to state your point, you dont have to be on your high horse

[The Drew]

The reason for carry is a legacy, just put self defense or protection. There is really no other valid reason than protection or self defense. Because that is really what almost everyone get's one for. To carry a handgun for self defense.

There is no way for a game warden to tell whether you're using a sidearm for defense or hunting, that's why you cannot carry a semi while hunting. They're illegal for hunting, therefore you cannot be carrying one while hunting.

It really is as simple as that. Had your friend followed the game laws, not the "carry laws" he wouldn't have gotten a fine.

It is a poor excuse to say he didn't know, well... Last time I got a hunting license (it's been some time) I got a booklet with all the rules printed there.

Point is, if you want a sidearm while hunting, it must be a revolver.

[Lougotzz]

Billy
Steve gets pissed because people insist they know what they are talking about. He tells them the truth based on law and they argue with him. I have no problem with him putting people in thier place. He trys to help and the internet ninjas act like they know all. Then he backs it up with law and finds out more particulars and the ninja is dead wrong. Just like the fine for hunting with a LTCF for self defence. When we get down to all the facts it was because it ws a semi. Dont insist when you are not sure. Then the thread gets hijacked because of stupidity.

Secondly you should be grateful steve answers your questions. Others would not and say for liability reasons find the statute yourself.

[ChamberedRound]

Billy,

I agree with Lougotzz. I have seen Steve post valuable information numerous times on this site, always backing his answers not just with opinion, but by citing law and statutes.

In the end, Steve's assessment of the situation is correct. Yes, it stinks that PA doesn't make this information more available. Yes, it stinks that PA doesn't communicate changes/additions in the law more effectively. But the end result is that if one chooses to carry a weapon for ANY reason, it's THEIR responsibility to make sure they conform to the law. It's also their obligation to take responsibility for their actions if they are not in compliance with said law. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

If I were in the same situation and was cited on what some would consider a technicality, I'm sure I'd be aggravated as well. But this is just one of the reasons I haven't carried yet, despite having my LTC. I want to make sure that as many situations I could possibly be throughout my day while armed, are those which I am protected by the law, not in violation of it.