Permit in Montgomery County

[jkroner659]

Originally Posted by TrybalRage

With your troubles and that other guy's response to open carry from Montgomery County, it looks like the LEO's up there have their heads up their collective asses.

Open carry day, anyone?

Open carry day sounds like a fine idea...as long as its not in philly in a bad area lol. We need to act on some guns rights such as open carry or in 15 years it will be abolished.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by billamj

Hope you have a good lawyer if they decide to press the point because on the form you swear that you've answered ALL of the questions to the best of your ability. By supplying a false answer you have perjured yourself. I've seen it happen before.

You're enitled to your opinion, wrong though it may be.

Explain to me how "not applicable" is a false answer. Better yet, get me a bible and a notary so i can swear under penalty of perjury that, to the best of my knowledge what firearms i own is not applicable for the purposes of a LTCF application. If it is applicable, please find me the law that says i need to tell the sheriff's office what guns i own as a condition of getting my carry permit. oh, wait....it's not there.

[TravisBickle]

I just moved to Philly a couple of months ago so I renewed my permit a year early while I was still in Montgomery county. Abington police took some basic information and were done in a couple of weeks.

The Montco courthouse was quick and smooth, no problems.

I shudder to think that I'll have to renew my permit in Philly next time. My last renewal was in Philly and it took every bit of six months for them to complete my permit. I was without a permit for months and they told me that I would be arrested if I was caught carrying without a permit - even though the law says I have six months after the expiration of my permit as long as I wouldn't otherwise be prohibited from lawfully renewing. (correct me if I'm wrong about the 6mo "grace period", but I swear I remember reading that)

Also, I remember the law says that they have no longer than 45 days to complete the process and issue a permit. How does Philly get away with taking 6 months to issue a permit?

[billamj]

Originally Posted by MarcS

You're enitled to your opinion, wrong though it may be.

Explain to me how "not applicable" is a false answer. Better yet, get me a bible and a notary so i can swear under penalty of perjury that, to the best of my knowledge what firearms i own is not applicable for the purposes of a LTCF application. If it is applicable, please find me the law that says i need to tell the sheriff's office what guns i own as a condition of getting my carry permit. oh, wait....it's not there.

I never said to put ANYTHING in that part of the form much less a list of your firearms, MarcS. Perhaps you should go back and reread the thread. What I did say to do was to leave it blank and if they questioned you about it say that since the UFA blatantly states that there is no registration required in this state you felt it was irrelevant. I hope that you can see my point in that. My other point was if you enter anything in that section that is not what it is asking for explicitly you are committing perjury.

[Siobhra]

My local chief just asked

"Do you know how to shoot safely?"
"If not then I suggest strongly that you get lessons." "I can suggest some good places to learn".
I told him I shoot IDPA and he laughed and said I could probably teach him a thing or two.
He then said that it was none of his business what or how many guns I own but he was curious what I would be carrying. I told him a XD-9 and he then we talked for a while about the pro's and con's of the XD-9 verse's his Glock. He took the clip out of his and handed it to me to look at.

Later it hit me what he really did. He watched me handle the gun. Did keep my finger out of the trigger or did I wave it around. He got me relaxed and watched me. Smart man.

[1FingrCHan]

Originally Posted by TrybalRage

Sorry, earlier I was a little heated when I read about this guy's problem.

But still, if you are new to a county and know no one, you are effectively shut down from getting your license to carry. That doesn't seem right. Also, yes, I have some 'character witnesses' but maybe I don't want people knowing I carry.

I didn't know anyone here in PA. I put two references who are out of state. They (the sheriff office) didn't contact either one. I am in Bucks County, BTW.



1FingrCHan

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by billamj

I never said to put ANYTHING in that part of the form much less a list of your firearms, MarcS. Perhaps you should go back and reread the thread. What I did say to do was to leave it blank and if they questioned you about it say that since the UFA blatantly states that there is no registration required in this state you felt it was irrelevant. I hope that you can see my point in that. My other point was if you enter anything in that section that is not what it is asking for explicitly you are committing perjury.

That's absolutely not true. You don't seem to understand the aspects of a perjury charge. If i just put a big X over the box, could they charge me with perjury?

6111.4 in fact expressly forbids the government from keeping a regestry, but that's probably irrelvent since they can claim that they destroy the information after running a check. Also, PSP has gotten away with it forever.

The question is simply irrelevent under 6109, and stating so on the paper is not perjury. Getting into an argument with the clerk as you suggest will get you nowhere. They're just told to have people fill out that form. When you hand it back with a section blank, and you argue the point with them, all you'll do is make your head hurt because you're arguing with someone whos job doesn't require them to know the law.

If you write "N/A" and are denied for that reason, now you have a lawsuit and can actually effect something

[ursavus.elemensis]

Originally Posted by MarcS

Just write N/A for firearms.

No, just write in whatever guns you own, for the reasons stated in a post above. They can tell if you're lying. If you write "n/a", a reasonable person would interpret that as meaning that you are saying that you do not have any guns, hence the question about listing them is "not applicable" to you. But if you do have guns, and you've written "n/a", you have just lied.

Look, does the guy want the permit or not? Unless he's got lots of time and money to burn up with a lawsuit that is unlikely to be successful, he should just pay the fee, fill out the forms, and get his permit and move on with life. Why does EVERYTHING have to come down to a fight? Then again, we all know that on Internet forums, lots of people talk tough, but few of them ever walk into a lawyer's office, throw down their MasterCard, and take the issues to court. Put your money where your Internet typing fingers are, or fill out the form and move on.

[ursavus.elemensis]

Originally Posted by MarcS

If you write "N/A" and are denied for that reason, now you have a lawsuit and can actually effect something

MarcS, just a quick question for you: How many lawsuits have you brought in defense of your rights? If you have the time and the cash to support a legal case, then by all means, go forth and sue. But you risk losing any suit you bring and since you have now lied on a form and lost the resultant court case, you have also, FOREVER, lost your right to buy a gun or to carry a gun in PA. Lots to lose, so little to gain, but if you have the time and money and do not really want to ever carry a gun anyway, then Sue, sue, sue.

So, how many suits you been a plaintiff on?

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by ursavus.elemensis

No, just write in whatever guns you own, for the reasons stated in a post above. They can tell if you're lying. If you write "n/a", a reasonable person would interpret that as meaning that you are saying that you do not have any guns, hence the question about listing them is "not applicable" to you. But if you do have guns, and you've written "n/a", you have just lied.

Look, does the guy want the permit or not? Unless he's got lots of time and money to burn up with a lawsuit that is unlikely to be successful, he should just pay the fee, fill out the forms, and get his permit and move on with life. Why does EVERYTHING have to come down to a fight? Then again, we all know that on Internet forums, lots of people talk tough, but few of them ever walk into a lawyer's office, throw down their MasterCard, and take the issues to court. Put your money where your Internet typing fingers are, or fill out the form and move on.

You don't know what you're talking about.

§ 4902. Perjury.

(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of perjury, a felony of the third degree, if in any official proceeding he makes a false statement under oath or equivalent affirmation, or swears or affirms the truth of a statement previously made, when the statement is material and he does not believe it to be true.

HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT A REASONABLE PERSON MIGHT BELEIVE SINCE YOU CAN CLEARLY ARTICULATE WHAT YOU MEANT (AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS THE TEST) WHEN YOU WROTE "NOT APPLICABLE"

As to your suggestion that we all just bend over and take it, if we all start thinking like you, kiss gun rights goodbye.

MarcS, just a quick question for you: How many lawsuits have you brought in defense of your rights? If you have the time and the cash to support a legal case, then by all means, go forth and sue. But you risk losing any suit you bring and since you have now lied on a form and lost the resultant court case, you have also, FOREVER, lost your right to buy a gun or to carry a gun in PA. Lots to lose, so little to gain, but if you have the time and money and do not really want to ever carry a gun anyway, then Sue, sue, sue.

So, how many suits you been a plaintiff on?

ZERO. I'm not an injured party here. My Township does not require unneccecary information. As to the rest, we've already established you not knowing what the fuck you're talking about anyway.