How to Appeal License Revocation?

[headcase]

I am a bit surprised by how your last post came across. You seem to have a bit of an attitude with people trying to help you. Here is an idea for you, get in your car, drive to the prothonotary's office and after waiting for someone to offer you assistance, ask them to explain the process for filing an appeal of a LTCF revocation. That is where it gets filed, as you yourself have already stated. In my county, and I do not know if this is the same throughout the Commonwealth, I was informed the filing fee was either $75 or $200. Someone with the letters E-s-q. after their name will be able to give you specific direction, but again, you have already been told that. Answering the questions about how and why your license was revoked, will enable a clearer suggested course of action, but you will not get one more clear than get a lawyer.

[Appealing]

Originally Posted by chrisjames_71

Ummm, wow.. Did you read all 10? I did and saw pretty clear what one said. I'll quote it for you:



The bold italic is what you need to look at. No there isn't any forms online. Whether or not you need a lawyer or not, I have no clue. Don't know what you did to get revoked (nor do I care), so I can't answer that part.

You guys crack me up.

I have lived in three different states. Where I grew up at, the guys tha are cops are the guys that could not be engineers, could not be utility workers, could not be anything pretty much, except cops. I have been given 1000 excuses from cops, been given advice several times, one time in particular, I was told to "tow a vehicle" that was continuously parked in a leased parking space of mine, and when I finally got to the point where I did tow it, 2 parking spaces away, the owner of the car blamed me for damage to the sheet metal of the car that was clearly visible six months prior when an advertisement for sales of the realestate was printed in a magazine that I had laying on my coffee table. When the police came to ask about the damage, I showed them the photos of the vehicle in the realestate add, and showed them digital photos on my computer of the damage prior to the date of moving the car that again clearly showed the damage, and even showed them cell phone picture messages with the photos of the damage to the car with times prior to moving the car. They confiscated my computer and my magazines and my cell phone and arrested me for Tampering with an Automobile and Petty Vandalism. I represented my self through the entire process, built a case, filed for discovery, and won my case in front of a Circuit Court Judge in the state where I was living at the time.

So listening to Sheriff tell me to "Get a Lawyer" makes me think that they are saying, to go throw your self of a sword you sucker and pay thousands of dollars because thats what dummies have to do to clear any legal process that might be pending against you. Or they might just be saying "sorry we cant tell you anything at all" so the safe thing to say to each and every person is to get a Lawyer.

[chrisjames_71]

Originally Posted by Appealing

You guys crack me up.

I have lived in three different states. Where I grew up at, the guys tha are cops are the guys that could not be engineers, could not be utility workers, could not be anything pretty much, except cops. I have been given 1000 excuses from cops, been given advice several times, one time in particular, I was told to "tow a vehicle" that was continuously parked in a leased parking space of mine, and when I finally got to the point where I did tow it, 2 parking spaces away, the owner of the car blamed me for damage to the sheet metal of the car that was clearly visible six months prior when an advertisement for sales of the realestate was printed in a magazine that I had laying on my coffee table. When the police came to ask about the damage, I showed them the photos of the vehicle in the realestate add, and showed them digital photos on my computer of the damage prior to the date of moving the car that again clearly showed the damage, and even showed them cell phone picture messages with the photos of the damage to the car with times prior to moving the car. They confiscated my computer and my magazines and my cell phone and arrested me for Tampering with an Automobile and Petty Vandalism. I represented my self through the entire process, built a case, filed for discovery, and won my case in front of a Circuit Court Judge in the state where I was living at the time.

So listening to Sheriff tell me to "Get a Lawyer" makes me think that they are saying, to go throw your self of a sword you sucker and pay thousands of dollars because thats what dummies have to do to clear any legal process that might be pending against you. Or they might just be saying "sorry we cant tell you anything at all" so the safe thing to say to each and every person is to get a Lawyer.

Well good for you. Best of luck this time around as well. Don't really know why we crack you up though, considering you asked a question and it was answered. Maybe not to your liking, but it was answered.

[headcase]

It makes me tingly thinking that we amuse you..... I just spent 15 minutes getting your prothonotary's office on the phone and they gave me the info you need, you have to<delete>

opps...

[chrisjames_71]

Originally Posted by headcase

It makes me tingly thinking that we amuse you..... I just spent 15 minutes getting your prothonotary's office on the phone and they gave me the info you need, you have to<delete>

opps...

nice....

[pex]

Lots of internet rage and snide plays going on here. I suppose that's always conducive to being well-informed.

I'm part of a club who thinks that a person should not need and does not need a lawyer for every single touch of a legal process, too. It's an obnoxious system we've built, but it's not one that we absolutely cannot navigate.

You pay a lawyer to devote time and effort to doing work you don't have the time to do or learn, and in this occupation of being a lawyer, a lawyer acquires field experience which is something that is not available through statute or case law (I suppose our state of law is still that unfortunate.)

That doesn't mean you always need a lawyer, and no lawyer needs to take offense to the fact that they are not god of pool of law. Lawyers (much like police) are just citizens from a pool of the People, not some special elite.

I don't know what a circuit court is in this guy's state, so it's hard to say how qualified he really is. It has been suggested elsewhere on PAFOA, though, to simply get records of another person's appeal/petition-for-review and work off of it.

Not giving this guy general information just because you want to 'hurt him' probably hurts him less than it hurts the community that includes a number of people who might like to be self-sufficient. Everyone could take the time to spend years in college and law school and work as a lawyer, but we don't really all have that time. The point of this association is to spread information in numbers...so that we don't all have to do that.

The Greg Brotz and Gary Young revocations have some documents attached that you might consider working off of.

Originally Posted by gnbrotz

An attorney is highly recommended. Whether you use one or not, your recourse is through the Court of Common Pleas for your county, and nowhere else.

I don't think that's entirely true. There is nothing in law that stops a sheriff from just giving back a license (as in, you could call and ask for it back, if you'd like.) That would be 'recourse' but not statutory (and final) recourse.

[mjf]

Originally Posted by Appealing

So listening to Sheriff tell me to "Get a Lawyer" makes me think that they are saying, to go throw your self of a sword you sucker and pay thousands of dollars because thats what dummies have to do to clear any legal process that might be pending against you. Or they might just be saying "sorry we cant tell you anything at all" so the safe thing to say to each and every person is to get a Lawyer.

Getting a lawyer does not make you a dummy, by contrast plenty of intelligent people have an attorney... If you're license was unlawfully revoked, then I'm pretty sure that everyone here wants you to get it back. I think we all have you're best interest at heart...

Remember, you're not fending off criminal charges here, so you'll probably get less "grace with your case." You'll be contesting the Sheriff's lawyer and it may be very easy to get tripped up--without even knowing it. You'll have a hard time knowing what caselaw to cite, statutes, etc... But even more troubling, you'll probably have a hard time detecting any inaccuracies and other filth the sheriff's lawyer spews, if any. I'm sure whatever the sheriff's lawyer says will sound quite convincing. Even further, there's a chance the sheriff may have even broken a few laws along the way to your revocation, and details like that are easily looked over without an attorney... Also, if you're not sure what to file, there's a good chance you may file it wrong and your case could be dismissed.

Please don't take offense to this...

[BerksCountyDave]

I love how this is his first post on this site, and he's giving respected members of our community loads of attitude. Classy.

[headcase]

Originally Posted by pex

Lots of internet rage and snide plays going on here. I suppose that's always conducive to being well-informed.

I'm part of a club who thinks that a person should not need and does not need a lawyer for every single touch of a legal process, too. It's an obnoxious system we've built, but it's not one that we absolutely cannot navigate.

You pay a lawyer to devote time and effort to doing work you don't have the time to do or learn, and in this occupation of being a lawyer, a lawyer acquires field experience which is something that is not available through statute or case law (I suppose our state of law is still that unfortunate.)

That doesn't mean you always need a lawyer, and no lawyer needs to take offense to the fact that they are not god of pool of law. Lawyers (much like police) are just citizens from a pool of the People, not some special elite.

I don't know what a circuit court is in this guy's state, so it's hard to say how qualified he really is. It has been suggested elsewhere on PAFOA, though, to simply get records of another person's appeal/petition-for-review and work off of it.

Not giving this guy general information just because you want to 'hurt him' probably hurts him less than it hurts the community that includes a number of people who might like to be self-sufficient. Everyone could take the time to spend years in college and law school and work as a lawyer, but we don't really all have that time. The point of this association is to spread information in numbers...so that we don't all have to do that.

The Greg Brotz and Gary Young revocations have some documents attached that you might consider working off of.



I don't think that's entirely true. There is nothing in law that stops a sheriff from just giving back a license (as in, you could call and ask for it back, if you'd like.) That would be 'recourse' but not statutory (and final) recourse.

I would say in certain situations, this post might have merit, but as it pertains to this one, I do not. This OP was given a wealth of answers that should have been sufficient to get him started down the correct path to a good personal decision. Apparently what he actually wanted, was someone to spend their time digging up everything that was required or relevant, and barring that, go down to the courthouse and obtain documents, come home and scan them for him to peruse at his leisure. He disparaged the help he was given. Then, for good measure, he puts out that he is, in some sense, proficient or at least negligibly experienced in legal procedure, and seems to feel that getting a lawyer would be a waste of money. While it may turn out to be such, why would anyone want to engage in a fight against a governmental entity without a full arsenal? At least picking a lawyers brain would probably be the best decision someone could make in this situation. Again, he was given this advice, not only by the sheriff's office, but here as well. He seems to be adamantly opposed to doing so. Even so, a simple, "OK, thanks for the advice, but I will look else where.", would have been in order instead of what he responded with. While I choose not to post all the specific information I received, he could receive the same, first hand, with a simple phone call.

Please see the below quoted post:

Originally Posted by BerksCountyDave

I love how this is his first post on this site, and he's giving respected members of our community loads of attitude. Classy.

[MrUgly]

Being a glutton for punishment, I decided to take another stab at this. I spoke with Angie, in the Montgomery County Prothonotary office for what steps a MontCo resident would take.

1) In person, bring cash or certified funds in the amount of $219.00
2) File a Petition in a format that the judge can sign.*
3) Show up in court

*What's this? You don't know how to write a legal petition? Very well. The clerk will show you the Law Library, where there are numerous texts that will show you the format you need to use and the particular verbiage to copy.

There are no forms.

Get. A. Lawyer. Pay. Him. Money. You do not need one, but neither do you have the be an ASE certified mechanic to work on your car, it just makes the job go faster.