FL vs. PA LTCF

[lizzielu]

Why are people who live in Pa getting a FL LTCF? Is it better? Why not just get the Pa license?

[knight0334]

They get the FL CWP to have coverage in the states that PA's doesn't cover.

If you dont travel out of the state - getting a FL, or any other for that matter, is a waste of money.

[soberbyker]

Originally Posted by lizzielu

Why are people who live in Pa getting a FL LTCF? Is it better? Why not just get the Pa license?

I have a Utah CWP, similar to the FL but a tad less expensive in the long run, because I go to Delaware frequently, the PA LTCF is not honored there, the UT & FL are.

Bill
.

[BCI Instructor]

UTAH CFP, for a Utah resident, has the maximum coverage offered any permit, including Florida's. Reason for all of the recognition: stringent training outine (it is a Felony for me to deviate from the course) and the fact that the entire UTAH CFP database is run through NICS every 24 hours.

Florida's permit is often touted due to it's minimal training requirements (DD214, Hunter's Safety, any NRA course, etc...) but it's coverage is less than Utah's and it's cost is far greater.

For nearly all Pennsylvania residents,
UTAH is still a better value than FLORIDA.
For the first permit / first 5 years, costs are roughly equal.
As of 5 years and a day, UTAH is far less expensive.

Start up costs for Utah are similar or slightly higher
($65.25 for the initial permit + $75 or less for my class and fingerprints),
but as of your first renewal
($117 for FL every 5 years, $10 for Utah)
Utah becomes infinitely less expensive.
your first Florida renewal would pay for over 50 years of Utah renewals.

UTAH renewals are a single page notarized form and $10.
FLORIDA renewals are the _same_ process as a new application;
full application, NEW fingerprints, etc...

A PA resident carrying on a UTAH CFP is covered in 29 states.
A PA resident carrying on a PA LTCF and UTAH CFP is covered in 34 states.
A PA resident permit get you coverage in Florida, so no other need for FL.

A PA LTCF offers no coverage to the adjacent states of Ohio or Delaware.
UTAH CFP gets you both, regardless of whether you have a PA LTCF.

I have 5 permits (PA, UT, NH, VA, FL) and I'm covered (sometimes by 4 or 5 of those permits) in 34 states.
I'm eligible for approx. 4 more that would add that state alone (ME, MA, CT, SC) to my total count that I havent pursued due to cost or lack of need / interest. If work or family take me in those directions, I'll pursue them if need be. Reciprocity agreements can change, so I like the double coverage.

... hope this helps, and may save some folks a few $$$ ...

[BCI Instructor]

For those that carry on a Non-Resident permit, the following info may prevent you from accidentally becoming a felon

There are 7 states which recognize Resident permits only
(CO NH FL WV MI *KS *SC) ---- the PA LTCF gets you the first 5 of 7.

Resident permit only exceptions for PA LTCF holders are as follows:

*Kansas = no agreement in place with PA

*South Carolina = no agreement in place with PA, and none likely due to a new law signed less than 2 months ago in SC, to qualify for reciprocity or regonition you must meet or exceed SC's training requirement.
As PA LTCF has no training prerequesite, a deal is impossible.
SC is really the only "hole" in UTAH coverage from PA south, excepting the People's Republic of Maryland

PS - there is 1 way to obtain the limited (and virtually unknown)
SC Non-Resident Permit:

You must own real property there. I know of folks who for example as a group split the modest cost of a 1/2 acre vacant lot. They showed their proof of property tax payment and successfully applied for the SC Non-Res permit. This is especially common amongst retired military who are fond of returning to the area for visiting former brothers in arms / hunting / camping / recreation / etc ... as I believe SC is highly ranked or # 1 in terms of retired military folks who are residents.

For those interested, you may wish to visit the thread titled:

" SOUTH CAROLINA -
obtaining coverage via SC Non- Res property owners permit "

SC does offer very liberal vehicle carry (ok loaded in glove box, console, etc... with a *latch* / closure mechanism, does not require a lock) if you are just passing through, and you can carry from your vehicle to your lodging (private / rental / leased).

Hope this helps...


(poster is a Full Time UTAH CFP & NRA Instructor covering 6+ states incl. PA;
UTAH CFP Course $75 @ or less at your site - including fingerprinting services)

[BCI Instructor]

Originally Posted by moose
Hey guys,
I know PA and FL have reciprocity. My question is: Does my FL non-resident work the same way a PA LTCF works?

Important, please note:
For those carrying in PA on another state's Non-Resident permit who do NOT have a PA LTCF (Resident or Non-Resident)

There IS one area where there is a difference between:

carrying in PA on a PA LTCF (resident or non-resident)
vs.
carrying in PA on a FL CWP, UTAH CFP or ANY Non-Resident permit ...

School Zones (K thru 12).

You must have a permit _issued by the state in which the school is located_ for certain Federal or State exemptions to the GFSZA (Gun Free School Zone Act). This would apply whether you were in a vehicle or on foot on school property of a K thru 12 school.

States (or the local municipality in the absence of statewide preemption) may offer their own "enhancements" to the GFSZA.

For example: I am from PA and have a second home in Virginia.
I have a VA Non-Resident permit in my "collection".
I can have a concealed firearm on my person or in my vehicle while in the traffic circle / drop off area or similar of a school in Virginia - I simply cannot exit the vehicle armed.

In areas where permits can be issued by local officials rather than the state, these also qualify for the exemption (county sheriff, chief of police, selectman / alderman / councilman).

You may wish to reference the following:

Opinion letter from ATF confirming the above

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf

also the 1996 version of the Gun Free School Zone Act

(be mindful if you search via Google or similar simply using the name of the Act, the original 1990 version was struck down by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional so check the date of the text / webpage)

18 USC 922 (q) (B) (ii)

... hope this is useful ...

[sprat]

well I don't see it that way but I have a resident florida permit I reside in Florida and spends the summers with my daughter & her family in Pa, I have a florida address on my ID. & driver license

this has been bantered around abit and usually the ones who say one is better than the other are guys who make money instructing folks for the utah permit.
one thing I have yet to read is you may not be able to renew in 5 years, utah is pushing to suspend out of state certifications for in state certifications only, which I believe will happen. of course the guy setting up the Utah training course pocketing the $ 50 bucks per student is going to tell you it won't happen thats good business! I can't blame him/them.

you gain a state or two or less with either permit and it also depends on whether the permit holder is a resident of the state of issuance as indicated above, since I have a hunting license and military training I would rather pay the extra $ 50 to florida than to retake a class from someone but thats me!

sprat
Florida res ccw. Pa non res ltcf, non-res NJFID, Irish FAC

[BCI Instructor]

Hello Sprat,

You proceed from one or two incorrect assumptions, please allow me to explain...

Originally Posted by sprat

this has been bantered around abit and usually the ones who say one is better than the other are guys who make money instructing folks for the utah permit.

I offered a cost comparison and coverage comparison.
Whatever suits anyone best based upon their needs, finances and travel habits is the route they should choose.

Originally Posted by sprat

one thing I have yet to read is you may not be able to renew in 5 years, utah is pushing to suspend out of state certifications for in state certifications only, which I believe will happen. of course the guy setting up the Utah training course pocketing the $ 50 bucks per student is going to tell you it won't happen thats good business! I can't blame him/them.

Utah training is one time / lifetime, renewal is a single page notarized form and $10. No need for retraining or to attend another Utah course.
Of course, opinions vary as to whether they will continue to permit out of state classes (has nothing to do with Instructor licensure) but historically such measures have been soundly defeated. In any case, if you obtain a Utah license now you will be able to maintain / renew it.

Originally Posted by sprat

you gain a state or two or less with either permit and it also depends on whether the permit holder is a resident of the state of issuance as indicated above, since I have a hunting license and military training I would rather pay the extra $ 50 to florida than to retake a class from someone but thats me!

Again, whatever suits anyone best based upon their needs, finances and travel habits is the route they should choose _ and_ you do not "retake" a Utah class.

... hope this clears up any misconceptions ...

[whyzdom]

Originally Posted by knight0334

They get the FL CWP to have coverage in the states that PA's doesn't cover.

If you dont travel out of the state - getting a FL, or any other for that matter, is a waste of money.

Getting an out-of-state permit and never traveling isn't always a waste of money. I live in Illinois (you know how strict it is here), and I am currently getting at least 4, probably 6 Carry permits to help on making a political statement. Whenever we have rallies, I can display my Carry Licenses and when people ask I can inform them that I can legally carry in 30+ states, but that my state doesn't trust me.

So it's not always a waste when we are trying to fight for our right to actually have the ability to OC/CC.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by sprat

this has been bantered around abit and usually the ones who say one is better than the other are guys who make money instructing folks for the utah permit.

fwiw, i don't instruct for the utah permit and i still recommend it over the FL.

the states each gives you changes over time, but, when i got mine a year or so ago, UT + PA gave you all the states FL + PA did plus one more. it was also cheaper.

one thing I have yet to read is you may not be able to renew in 5 years, utah is pushing to suspend out of state certifications for in state certifications only, which I believe will happen.

they've talke about that before and it hasn't actually happened. but, it might. however, you don't have to re-take the certification class to renew, so, even if they do pass a law saying you have to take the class in UT, there is a good chance it won't effect renewals.

(the last time this came up...maybe 2 years ago or something...they were discussing not issuing non-resident permits at all. now they are just talking about requiring people to come to UT for the class. but, unless they also change the law to say you have to re-take the class with each renewal, it won't have any effect on non-residents who already have a permit. if anything, it might be a good argument to hurry up and get your UT permit before they make any changes...assuming they ever actually do.)

since I have a hunting license and military training I would rather pay the extra $ 50 to florida than to retake a class from someone but thats me!

that is definitely an advantage for FL. they accept a variety of "training", so you might not need to take another class.