LTCF: Carrying in/on School Zone; PSP Answer

[RJH245]

So, If a person works at the school and has a LTCF can they keep a loaded gun locked in their car while they are at work?

[headcase]

Originally Posted by RJH245

So, If a person works at the school and has a LTCF can they keep a loaded gun locked in their car while they are at work?

Don't know. I would postulate that if no one knows it is there, no one can complain or arrest you.

[Statkowski]

Headcase, you're right on the money with this one. The state doesn't want to find out what the law means, and the citizen doesn't want to have to go through the mill finding out, either. Of course, if someone insists on pushing it, the state may very well be forced to push back.

The last case I heard of (it made TV news), they charged some lady with defiant trespass when she was caught "legally" carrying a concealed handgun into a school (she was asked to leave and refused). Since she had an LTCF, she wasn't charged with a Section 912 violation.

My opinion, a) if they don't see it they won't get upset, b) no need to get all sorts of paranoid just for driving by a school, or picking up your kid outside the school, c) don't put a flashing sign on the roof of your car saying "GUN! GUN! GUN!"

[SigForLife]

Just got a response (telephone call) from the PA Attorney General's Office. A Mr. George Keiser (sp?) called me and told me that he received my letter to the AG and that he handles firearm related questions. He said he read over my letter, understood that I was extremely well versed in the PA law and that when he picked up his dictaphone to prepare a letter, he felt it would be better to just call (this is explained later). He said that the law seems clear to "him" but that the Attorney General's Office does not provide advisory opinions on the law and any such letter is not enforceable to prevent prosecution. I explained that I am a member of PAFOA (of which he was immediately aware) and that there are a lot of PA LTCF members who do not want to violate the law and thus would like some guidance. He reiterated that the AG does not write opinion letters. To which I asked, what would the letter have included if the AG does not write opinion letters. He said that that was the reason for his call because he didn't want to just reiterate the law that I specified in my letter. I said that I understood that and that my read of the law, as depicted in my letter, was that a LTCF does allow someone to carry on school property, to which he responded that that was his reading of the law also. Unfortunately, my phone cut out at this point and that's where the conversation ended. His phone number was blocked so I didn't have a return number to call him back. He was EXTREMELY pleasant and seemed to understand my (our) concern, but as I stated, he felt the law was clear that a LTCF was a lawful reason.

[Pa. Patriot]

Understanding this is no "official" opinion or guidance... The conversation you had goes to show that the plain letter of the law tends to rise to the top when discussed with authorities under the lamp of public scrutiny. "Public" because they are aware you are a member of an organization that regularly brings lots of attention to issues.

Thanks for sharing.

[Statkowski]

So, If a person works at the school and has a LTCF can they keep a loaded gun locked in their car while they are at work?

If the car was parked on school property, then the LTCF should negate any legal consequences.

However, if firearms are prohibited as part of the person's Terms of Employment, then they could disciplined accordingly. Bolden v. Chertiers (2/3/2005) covered that subject.

[mjf]

I think our "Possession of Weapon on School Property" statute, in my opinion, is totally weird. I'm not sure why it only lists a defense and not any exceptions... It seems elsewhere in the UFA, where there's a prohibition against firearms, there's generally an exception for law enforcement, etc, like courthouses for example.

[Delco Sig]

If the Attorney General, the body responsible for charging and prosecuting violations of the law, won't clarify the law for responsible citizens, how can we be expected to follow it?

Oh, right. They interpret vaguely worded laws in the moment to best suit their case.

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by Statkowski

If the car was parked on school property, then the LTCF should negate any legal consequences.

However, if firearms are prohibited as part of the person's Terms of Employment, then they could disciplined accordingly. Bolden v. Chertiers (2/3/2005) covered that subject.

Regardless, I would keep the gun in a locked safe in the car while on school property (or anywhere your car is left unattended and you can't tote your gun with you). This will certainly decrease the chance for any "complications."
I have a pistol safe bolted and WELDED to the interior of my car. It's also mounted in such a way as to limit tampering (tight space).

[mjf]

Originally Posted by Delco Sig

If the Attorney General, the body responsible for charging and prosecuting violations of the law, won't clarify the law for responsible citizens, how can we be expected to follow it?

Oh, right. They interpret vaguely worded laws in the moment to best suit their case.

I'm not sure the Attorney General's opinion means much of anything with regard to this law. A DA could still prosecute you and a court could still convict you of the crime. In time I'd bet someone, who plans on actually taking a real stand for their rights, will get pounced for the crime and probably win.