Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association

Go Back   Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association Discussion Forum > Discussion > Concealed & Open Carry > Concealed Carry

Notices

PAFOA Sponsors Businesses that provide financial and technical support to PAFOA. PAFOA Shopping Partners A percentage of all sales made through these partner links goes to PAFOA.
Arms Dealer Logo

Arms Dealer — Free Firearm Classifieds, Gun Shop & Shooting Range Reviews

Arms Dealer is your one-stop shop for free firearm classifieds, gun shop & shooting range reviews.

Join today to start buying, selling and reviewing!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 12:05 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location:
Franklin County
Posts: 1,789
Rep Power: 514804
ray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosseater View Post
What about politely acknowledging it's an affront to your rights, but in the interest of both your safety you will divulge the info. Something like:
I know I have no legal obligation to answer the question, but in the interest of both our continued safetly during this stop, I will tell you I do have a LTCF and am currently carrying a sidearm in "X" location. How would you like to proceed?

I was under the assumption that if you did something illegal incipient to a stop, they then had a right to ask certain questions, related or not. On the other hand, if you are stopped for no apparent reason (ie, casual contact or dui checkpoint, for example), you are under no obligation to cooperate. Am I wrong that your being stopped for a violation gives them more leeway in asking questions? I know you don't have to incriminate yourself, but is asking about a legal activity really incrimination, or is it all about being none of their damn business? Not being smart, just want clarification.
The problem with admitting that you are armed is the fear of it leading to violations of your rights such as searches and extended detention.
The police are legally allowed to ask you anything they want to, any time they want to. Simply asking a question is not a violation of your rights or the law. Hell, its not even illegal for them to lie and tell you that you must answer their questions. Its up to you to not answer the questions. You have to draw the line, not them.

Last edited by ray h; January 15th, 2012 at 12:10 AM.
Reply With Quote

Thanks for visiting our forum! If you ever plan to return you should consider quickly registering for a forum account, especially if you're in Pennsylvania. It's simple to do and best of all free. Once registered you'll be able to participate in our discussions and keep up to date on issues important to Pennsylvania firearm owners!

  #42 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 12:38 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location:
Swatara Twp, Pennsylvania
(Dauphin County)
Posts: 3,292
Rep Power: 689410
twency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond reputetwency has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray h View Post
Its never been an issue for me but if I was asked if I had a firearm during a traffic stop I would definately not inform him that I am. In my mind, the safest thing for myself and the officer is to not let him know Im armed until its obvious that he may find out by accident (such as making me step out of the vehicle or searching me)
A couple of you have said it would be illegal to lie and say "NO", is there case law or statutes to back that up? Ive never heard of anyone being charged for lieing unless they are sworn.
Regarding the legality of being required to exit a vehicle during a traffic stop, which was discussed somewhere in this thread, see Pennsylvania v. Mimms, which held that an order to exit a vehicle during a lawful traffic stop is "reasonable" (and so constitutional despite the fourth amendment).

Regarding lying, I can't offer anything immediately re: lying to state LEOs (the most obvious possibility appears to only cover written statements), but for federal officers I believe the relevant statute is 18 USC Sec. 1001. See also Martha Stewart and Scooter Libby, two notable figures successfully prosecuted for making unsworn false statements to federal investigators.
__________________
I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 12:48 AM
SteelCityK9Cop's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Posts: 1,613
Rep Power: 701472
SteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

The question that comes to mind with the issue of lying to the officer about having a gun on your person....

Terry requires one to be armed AND dangerous....

Would the courts look at lying about being armed as making one "dangerous" per Terry?
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 12:49 AM
johnfritz's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location:
Reading, Pennsylvania
(Berks County)
Posts: 614
Rep Power: 28270
johnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond reputejohnfritz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerJon View Post
... No consent, no duty to inform and generally, not answering any questions

Seem harsh? Seem anti cop? Whatever, I have a lot to lose, cops dont
That should be printed on the front of every driver license.
__________________
Johnnie F.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:09 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location:
Franklin County
Posts: 1,789
Rep Power: 514804
ray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
The question that comes to mind with the issue of lying to the officer about having a gun on your person....

Terry requires one to be armed AND dangerous....

Would the courts look at lying about being armed as making one "dangerous" per Terry?
Good question.
Remaining silent does not constitute RAS so I assume it does not constitute "dangerous" either.
I wonder if lieing would be RAS.
Im pretty sure fleeing (by itself, no offenses involved) is not RAS, wouldnt leing be the same as fleeing?
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:15 AM
SteelCityK9Cop's Avatar
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location:
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
(Allegheny County)
Posts: 1,613
Rep Power: 701472
SteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond reputeSteelCityK9Cop has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray h View Post
Good question.
Remaining silent does not constitute RAS so I assume it does not constitute "dangerous" either.
I wonder if lieing would be RAS.
Im pretty sure fleeing (by itself, no offenses involved) is not RAS, wouldnt leing be the same as fleeing?
Flight by itself minus other factors does not give the police the right to detain you.

I have a feeling that the courts would look at lying about being armed as filling the dangerous prong.
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 01:37 AM
Grand Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location:
Franklin County
Posts: 1,789
Rep Power: 514804
ray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond reputeray h has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityK9Cop View Post
Flight by itself minus other factors does not give the police the right to detain you.

I have a feeling that the courts would look at lying about being armed as filling the dangerous prong.
You may be right but my feeling is that the lie would need to be accompanied by a threat or an action or a suspicion of threat or action.
I dont know.
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Active Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location:
Upper Gwynedd, Pennsylvania
(Montgomery County)
Posts: 116
Rep Power: 771
Cookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond reputeCookieman00x has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeshooter View Post
I'm just curious, why? They don't need to know if you are CC if you are just being stopped for speeding....?

I know some states you are required to tell, but you're not here....

Every time they get out of the car they have to expect a worst case scenario. Letting them know is my way of making them feel easier about the situation. I know I donít have to, I choose to.

I have a few friends and family that are in the FOP. I have never seen a negative from letting them know and wonít change it till I do.
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 11:13 AM
longcall911's Avatar
Super Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location:
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
(Northampton County)
Age: 65
Posts: 682
Rep Power: 101189
longcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond reputelongcall911 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookieman00x View Post
Every time they get out of the car they have to expect a worst case scenario. Letting them know is my way of making them feel easier about the situation. I know I donít have to, I choose to.

I have a few friends and family that are in the FOP. I have never seen a negative from letting them know and wonít change it till I do.
The negative is that you are giving up your rights. By turning on lights and opening windows you are allowing police to visually search your property.

Now I understand that is your choice. But for many of us even though we have nothing to hide, we will not surrender our rights and especially not to simply make some cop 'comfortable'.

As far as I'm concerned, the cop needs to make *me* feel comfortable. He's the one with the badge, the legal force to do almost anything he wants and a whole bunch more buddies who will take his side. No, I won't surrender my rights simply to show cops that I'm friendly. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't have a cop as a friend. It just means that I didn't get stopped because the cop was feeling lonely and needed someone to talk to.
__________________
The Welfare state is modern socialism and it is here, now.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2012, 11:20 AM
zeroflat24's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location:
Cranberry, Pennsylvania
(Butler County)
Posts: 381
Rep Power: 15240
zeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond reputezeroflat24 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookieman00x View Post
Iíve never had an officer ask to see my weapon. I do however hand them my CCW when I hand them my DL if I am carrying. I also roll all my windows down and put my keys on the dash and if its night time, I turn on my interior lights.


Iíve only been pulled over 3-4 times in the last decade and each time only received a warning. You would be amazed at how an officer responds when they feel more comfortable. Some people wouldnít agree with doing that much but I donít mind it at all. Iíve got nothing to hide and I want the officer to know that.


If they asked to see my weapon, I wouldnít mind showing them. Most cops arenít out to be assholes unless provoked. Acting like youíre a lawyer with just about any cop and youíre looking for trouble. I have never had any negative issues with any police officer but I always treat them with respect.
I think this is the key. i always treat cops with as much respect as they deserve. if i feel like they are being dicks while im being nice ill switch to asshole mode. but usually when you are friendly they are also.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Police officer denied right to vote after refusing to surrender weapon... daschnoz Open Carry 75 November 19th, 2010 12:56 PM
The cop asks if I have any firearms... wa3ra General 53 February 14th, 2010 03:04 AM
Wal-Mart asks for my firearm AKross General 69 July 14th, 2009 07:48 PM
When a leftist asks WHY? Wasz General 44 November 7th, 2008 03:55 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Marketing Services provided by MergeMedia.
Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops