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Old September 4th, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Default announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

As I anxiously and patiently wait the arrival of my LTCF I am thinking about different situations that may occur while carrying concealed. Is it correct to announce to a police office during a routine traffic stop that you are carrying concealed as he asks for your driver's license, registration, and insurance card? If this was already covered on here before please forgive me and provide me the links. I just want to make sure that I am correctly educated and so far I am grateful for all the great members on here that have provided me with answers to my many questions!
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Old September 4th, 2010, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

i don't feel like looking up threads, but DON'T tell the officer you are carrying unless you feel he is likely to see your weapon! here in PA, we have NO obligation to inform police of our carry, and doing so unnecessarily is likely to cause problems for you.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 09:48 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

it is not legally required to inform in PA. (in some states, it is.)

different people have different opinions on whether or not it is a good idea.

imho, it is not a good idea to inform a police officer you do not know you are carrying. there are too many examples of them reacting inappropriately and disarming the motorist. there are even examples when officers have confiscated the gun and not returned it (forcing the owner to hire a lawyer and spend more than the gun is worth to get it back).

there are also many examples of officers not overreacting and simply thanking the person for informing them and telling them to just leave it holstered and keep their hands away from it. if all officers reacted this way, i would say go ahead and inform them. the problem, though, is that, if you do not know the officer, you do not know how he is going to react.

now, if you think he is going to realize on his own you are carrying, i would suggest informing him first. however, if you do a good job of concealing and are not asked to exit the vehicle, it is highly unlikely he will ever know.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

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Originally Posted by MischaBurns View Post
i don't feel like looking up threads,
This is why I suggested a while back about creating a newbie pool where the answers to common basic questions are answered. Maybe when danp gets the "comprehensive Pennsylvania gun law faq" page done it will make it easier for the newer guys/gals to know what to do.
In the meantime aferr 1973, use the search, there are lots of good info on this subject and others in the past.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

Hmmmmm, yes indeed I am newbie, but don't forget everyone was once a newbie at one time.

If someone has their LTCF then it is their right to carry in a vehicle correct? So unless the PO arrests you, why would the PO confiscate your gun if you have the legal right to carry concealed in a vehicle as per the LTCF? What if you have your gun in a holster on the passenger seat? What if you have your gun tucked under your seat? What if you have your gun in your glove box? What if you have your gun in the center console? I would assume that if your gun is in plain sight then you should inform the PO. If you are printing in anyway while carrying concealed in the vehicle I'm sure a sharp PO will notice and perhaps ask if you are carrying and then ask to see your LTCF. I was just asking for some real world examples here.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

There's no legal requirement to inform a police officer that you are carrying a concealed weapon. I opened a discussion a few years ago about how I did NOT inform when I was stopped:

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/318...iscussion.html (Vehicle stop by a LEO yesterday (A "duty to inform" discussion))

Hope this thread helps you in reviewing the varied opinions and viewpoints on the issue. However, while evaluating said discussions, understand that legally, there is no duty to inform.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aferr1973 View Post
If someone has their LTCF then it is their right to carry in a vehicle correct? So unless the PO arrests you, why would the PO confiscate your gun if you have the legal right to carry concealed in a vehicle as per the LTCF?
some of them just do not know the laws and make honest mistakes. for example, many police are under the mistaken impression that all legally possessed handguns in PA are in the PSP sales database (which they refer to as a registry). if your gun is not in there, they confiscate it. there are, however, a number of reasons your handgun could not be in there and still be legally possessed--including reports that they sometimes get as far backlogged as 6 months getting the data into the system.

there have been a couple cases posted in this forum. one i remember off the top of my head involved the hawley police dept. (do a search for "hawley police stole my gun" or something like that.)

there are also some police who are opposed to anyone other than them being allowed to carry and who generally approach their job with the attitude of enforcing their opinion rather than the actual law...and know that, in reality, they can get away with it.

Quote:
What if you have your gun in a holster on the passenger seat What if you have your gun tucked under your seat? What if you have your gun in your glove box? What if you have your gun in the center console? I would assume that if your gun is in plain sight then you should inform the PO.
if he is likely to see it, i would suggest informing. he isn't likely to see it in the glove box or center console or under the seat, though, unless you keep your registration and proof of insurance in the glove box or center console with the gun. btw, don't do that. keep them in separate locations. (imho, the best place to keep registration and proof of insurance is tucked into the driver's side sun visor.)

Quote:
If you are printing in anyway while carrying concealed in the vehicle I'm sure a sharp PO will notice and perhaps ask if you are carrying and then ask to see your LTCF. I was just asking for some real world examples here.
so don't print. i have had numerous interactions with police officers while carrying...including being pulled over three times. i have never informed any of them and none of them have ever said a word about it--my guess is they did not know.

(in one of those cases, the police officer started out being pretty much completely sure i had broken into my friend's house--which, of course, i did not, but it did certainly look like that was what quite possibly happened--so i'm sure if he had noticed i was carrying he would have reacted.)

just do a decent job of concealing and don't get nervous (which may raise a red flag).
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
if he is likely to see it, i would suggest informing. he isn't likely to see it in the glove box or center console or under the seat, though, unless you keep your registration and proof of insurance in the glove box or center console with the gun. btw, don't do that. keep them in separate locations. (imho, the best place to keep registration and proof of insurance is tucked into the driver's side sun visor.)
.
Not to hijack the thread:

I made the decision years ago..to carry the registration and insurance in my wallet with the license. I have both vehicles there and the Mrs has her own copies. Scenario was laid out during a "don't be a victim" type seminar: If you are car jacked...BG has your car and if your info is in the glove box he also has your address....AND he has your keys...which more than likely also includes your house key.


Back to the topic at hand.

If its not going to be "discovered" there is no reason to inform in PA. You wouldnt inform them of anything else in your car, would you? The empty gatorade bottle on the back floor? The Burger King bag on seat next to you? Nope. It's all legal...as is your gun.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

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Originally Posted by aferr1973 View Post
If this was already covered on here before please forgive me and provide me the links.
The search sucks but this comes up almost weekly.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/748...lled-over.html (Getting pulled over)

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/825...-carrying.html (Traffic Stop while Carrying)

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/617...ffic-stop.html (The Big question during a Traffic Stop)

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...ile-ccing.html (Pulled over while CCing?)

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...ill-beans.html (For those of you who choose to spill the beans)

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/893...-firearms.html (The cop asks if I have any firearms...)

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/415...concealed.html (LEO notification - concealed)

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...s-vehicle.html ("Do you have any *OTHER* weapons in the vehicle...?")

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/577...hicle-leo.html (Questioned about weapons in vehicle by LEO)

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ffic-stop.html (Traffic stop???)

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/504...lled-over.html (What to say when pulled over)
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Old September 4th, 2010, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: announcing you are carrying concealed to a police officer during a traffic stop?

In Ohio, I HAVE to do it, WHEN ARMED. Naturally there are those here who insist that I should notify when NOT carrying. Those so-called "courtesies" ALWAYS grow and grow until they become IMPOSITIONS, frequently unlawful ones.

Were I lawfully carrying in PA, I'd NEVER do it unless there was some compelling need, something rather unlikely.

I'm strictly letter of the law on police encounters. I do what the law requires, nothing more, nothing less. What any particular LEO "likes" is utterly immaterial to me.

I make sure that I know and obey the law. Made up "courtesies" are a nullity.
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