Where are you getting your firearms training information from?

[Rosco the Iroc]

Originally Posted by mercop

Right, wrong, or different the majority of armed, "trained", people being involved in shootings in the US are police. My experience is that they have a hard enough time getting cops to qualify in sterile conditions much less adding any stress or thought of tactics. What we do when it comes for firearms trickles down from three places and the supreme court tells us that training at least for the police needs to be recent, relevant, and realistic so lets take a look at their sources and how they translate to you walking down the street, armed trying to protect a loved one.

Military- recent could be. Relevant, nope, you are probably not going have an M4, and will be walking down a city street in the US, not a bombed out city in Iraq. Realistic, nope, you are not part of a team and will probably not even have one other shooter with you. And if you do chances are you are not trained to work together.

Police- recent could be. Relevant, nope, whether they are in or out of uniform as soon as they say "POLICE" they are acting under the color of law and have protections the citizen does not enjoy. Many police involved shootings are the result of a call for service or at least contact initiated by the officer. For the citizen it will be the bad guy who initiates the contact. I have seen some officers that were awesome on the street fall apart in off duty scenarios when that are out of uniform and don't have a radio on. Realistic, again not really, since seldom will a citizen ever get a chance to deploy their pistol like police do prior to many shootings.

Competition shooting- Recent, very much so. Relevant- depends on the type of competition. Very little is done in low light conditions and little force on force because it it hard to score on a sheet. Realistic, not unless you are getting attacked walking to or from your house or in your car. Wait, can't do that with live fire, of course that would be dangerous and hard to score. Just like getting attacked from behind or after being knocked down.

Here is a game to play with your favorite competition shooter. Give him an airsoft pistol that exactly matches his carry gun. Give him some headgear. Stand at arms distance from him. Have someone stand behind you with the tennis ball of death. Your shooter is instructed that when he sees the ball drop he is to draw and shoot you. In response to his movement you pimp slap him in the side of the head. See if this breaks his concentration. For us it has resulted in dropped airsofts and people getting knocked down. And when your competition shooter says how unfair the drill is you ask him to consider being knocked to the ground or up against a wall during a real altercation. That and being hit with a round house, the punch that starts most fights.

I don't care if you come train with me, or one of the of the other enlightened instructors out there. I just ask that you take a long hard look where you are getting the information from that you are using to prepare yourself to protect you and your family. Does it jive with the most likely threats you are likely to encounter?

If you like to spend you training time playing golf with a gun (what I call many gun games, since many are about the score and not preparing you for a real altercation) I am cool with that but don't try to pass it off as well rounded training.- George

OK the title asks a question, but ^ that makes no point. It is more of a ramble.

[Orive 8]

Lucky for us, the number of good trainers/training available at this moment in time is at an all time high for the defensive firearms industry.

Most of us serious students of defensive firearms training realize that IDPA is not training. However one can get value from participating in it and adding it to their training/practice regiment.

Here is a link to an article in Handguns magazine by Mike Briggs talking about this, http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_t...905/index.html

Keep training, practicing, and shooting. One never stops being a student of this craft.

[Carnes]

Originally Posted by mercop

If you tell me that you OC because you support the Second Amendment I say OK. If you tell me you OC because it makes tactical sense I say BS and will show you why on more than one level.

I think that there are tactical problems with OCing as an individual, but I would argue that two or more reasonably trained individuals OCing together do, in fact, have tactical advantages over CC.

I think if you OC as an individual for the sake of promoting the 2A that is a good thing. However there is a very small, but potentially catastrophic, sacrifice in the individuals security.

On the other hand, if you go OC with a little 'fire team,' I think that there would be considerable tactical advantages.

(just something I've been meaning to bring up for a while)

[mercop]

There are a handful of people in the world that I would trust to walk around OCing with. They are trusted for their experience and mindset not necessarily their skill shooting, even thought they are good.

Weapon retention has two parts, in and out of the holster. Both need to be practiced.

I teach students to identify peoples strong side whenever possible. Since 93% of people are right handed you assume they are unless the wearing of a watch or spotting of a knife clip says different. Part of Gun Grappling is isolating the strong arm and destroying it as the same time you attack the central nervous system. Elbows are a wonderful thing. There I go rambling again- George

[Ronin]

I've had the pleasure of learning from a lot of the current "gun gurus" when I was kid shooting IPSC. I've learned from Massad Ayoob, Walt Rauch, Skip Gochenour, Ken Hackathorn, Rob Leatham, Doug Koenig, Jerry Barnhart, Jerry Miculek, Todd Jarret, and many others. All of these folks either belonged to the shooting club I shot at or were guest speakers/shooters for various events. A lot of times I spent entire afternoons listening to their stories and gleaning as much knowledge as I could. I took heed when offered shooting techniques and I asked my fair share of questions. Whether it was real world tactical scenarios or tips for being a better competitor, I learned a lot and all of it has stuck with me to this day.

[mercop]

No matter who a story comes from you can learn something, sometimes it is what to do, more often is it what not to do.- George