I feel like douchebag of the year.

[exceltoexcel]

Originally Posted by Philbert

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/bu...rug.ready.html

In my amateur opinion, it sounds like a combination of effects. The effects of conditioning are well known. Sleep drugs do weird things to the brain, though by the looks of it Ambien is worse than Lunesta in that regard.

You'll note not one story on lunesta. If you search the whole web you won't find one substantiated claim, probably, unless the person had already had sleep walking issues prior.

Lunesta doesn't cause sleepwalking in people that aren't probe to it. Ambien will occasionally and very rarely make someone that has a paraylitic issue sleepwalk.


He's on a safe drug though less likely to be effective!

[exceltoexcel]

Originally Posted by NY Refugee

In one regards I have to agree with exbiker, have firearms and not being fully "with it" because of sleep issues is a receipt for disaster.
Get your sleep issues under control.
But I will agree with others here that the family needs to be involved and understand how to approach you to lessen the dramatic response of waking up suddenly. Good luck and see a professional.

He could have full normal sleep paterns and do the same thing. I'll say this one last time for those in de Nile. It happens to everone on this board you just are so grossly unaware of it that you don't know you're unaware of it.

[ungawa]

I don't know how long you've been out, but for me that kind of stuff only lasted about two years and is way behind me.

On the other hand, you had quite a confluence of unusual circumstances and I'm not sure your reaction was really out of line to begin with.

[truecrimson]

Everything exeltoexcel has said is accurate (Tried to rep you, but I have to spread the love). It's been a few years since I was out of school, and I haven't worked a sleep lab in a long time, but sleep does occur in multiple stages which are repeated. You go in and out of REM multiple times during sleep. You drem multiple times and you never remember them all, or even most of them. If it is interrupted in certain cycles you can and will go through a period of being active and appropriate without really being fully conciously aware.

This effect can be increased by disorders. For example PTSD, which is not really a disorder, merely a natural human reaction to having people try to kill you and your friends for long periods of time. However we label everything as a disorder these days because the powers that be are trying hard to make medicine politically correct. It can also be effected by medication which mainly can prolong the effect. It can be effected by stress, emotonal problems, lack of sleep, working long hours and changeing shifts, drug(prescribed or not) and alcohol use, etc, etc, etc.

I do not believe the OP did anything dangerous or even wrong. His muscle memory and lizard brain reacted appropriately. He did not shoot his family and he didn't think they were Korean soldiers or Iraqi insurgents or Viet Cong. He was awakened by his loved ones in a state of alarm, saw an explosion outside the window, armed himself, and his woman, got her and the offspring to the safe room, then cleared the dwelling. This is exactly what we try to train our muscle memory and lizard brain to do. Congratulations, sir, you have been succesful. Get a sleep study to nail down your sleep problems and determine treatements, train your family to be calm when they awaken you unless there really is a problem, and carry on secure in the knowledge that if there had been problem you would have protected your family.

[Triegle]

I take melatonin when i cant sleep. Its a natural hormone that helps you fall alseep and kick the sertonin(sp) into gear to keep you alseep. It doesnt knock you out like a prescribed medication would. I would suggest giving that a try.

Given your past and the way things went down i dont see that you did anything wrong BTW

oh and why did she wake you up the way she did?

[Steve_NEPhila]

Lock up your guns and see your Doctor.

That is the long and short of it. Locking up the guns is the important one. If (God forbid) something terrible were to happen and you were an actor and you could possibly be found liable it could be very problematic. Considering that you know this has happened and posted it on a public forum which can and will be used against you.

Not to hijack the thread, but clearing your own house is not such a good idea. Two reasons: Hiding in the dark is easier then "clearing" a house and you have the disadvantage and you abandon your family. I am sure you will make the best decision for yourself.

[Exbiker]

Having been an Independent OTR driver, also having had sleep and sleep deprivation studies done, been on a vol. fire company and been subjected to tramatic incidents I still say put away the weapons. I all too well know what stress, poor sleep and sleep depervation can do and did in my much younger years.
My assesmant of those first minutes are that he was just as impaired as somebody with a fairly high BA. Been there done that but got lucky.

[GRIZ]

You'll note not one story on lunesta.

Maybe not a story but only the manufacturer's warnings:

Possible serious side effects of LUNESTA include:

•getting out of bed while not being fully awake and doing an activity you do not know you are doing. (To learn more, read the LUNESTA Medication Guide).
•abnormal thoughts and behavior. Symptoms include more outgoing or aggressive behavior than normal, confusion, agitation, hallucinations, worsening of depression, and suicidal thoughts or actions.
•memory loss
•anxiety


The manufacturer knows more about this drug than any of us.

Come on. The guy has a problem, whatever it is, far beyond being solved by people on a firearms forum. Telling him what he did was normal, it's beacause of his training, or blaming it on his wife and kids, telling his wife and kids they're idiots and talking about sleep cycles is not going one help OneLiveRound a bit. He needs to lock up the guns, give his wife the key, and see a medical doctor regarding this episode as soon as possible.

[max384]

Originally Posted by exceltoexcel

If you were aware you notice it in yourself. don't believe me just do a little googleing. Do you even know how many dreams you have in one night? if you said one or two. You're probably unaware or an alien. People have many dreams the top level is around 7 the typical is around 5. Nothing here remotely resembles sleep walking. Nothing he posted was dangerous. Lunesta probably had zero to do with this situation. Specifically because lunesta is basically known not to activly produce situations of sleep walking in those not prone to sleep walking. The warning is a cover our ass warning. Ambien however has plenty of these documented. I'm in pharamacuticle marketing research. I don't just play one on TV and the Internet . Sounds to me like this isn't his first tenth or 30th time taking it and the episode doesn't indicate anything close the sleep walking so the warning doesn't play here.

The manufacturers of Lunesta warn about possible side effects of their medication that coincide with his symtpoms. You can't definitively diagnose his problem or rule out lunesta via an internet forum... though that is exactly what you are doing. You are also the first person I have ever known who can't spell their profession; I believe what you meant to say is: you are in pharmaceutical marketing research. Are you sure you don't just play one on the internet?

Originally Posted by OneLiveRound

I feel like ******bag of the year
I have serious problems sleeping and my kid and my ol lady woke me up in a panic yelling they didn't know what was going on. Now I've been shot at before in a combat zone and I know what Gunshots sound like so I can only allude to that's the reason I didn't awaken my self. I take lunesta and I've had lightning wake me up as well as the house settling wake me up prior to this. Basically I fell asleep on the couch (which is a rarity for me but I sleep when I can get it) and I guess I was asleep for about 45 minutes and I was in that weird space when you're in REM but not that deep , and they frigging come in and yell at me to wake up. Simultaneously as I awaken I hear an explosion , so my half sleep ass yell at them to "Get the **** Down!!!" and I Hustle them into the "Safe Room" I Charge the AK "and mutter something I don't remember to her and hand it to her" and grab the Mossberg and start clearing the house. I get to the second room and I awaken to reality and see the colors of Fireworks out side the window. Now I feel like the biggest ******bag in the world. I need help in trying to figure out why I reacted the way I did.

#1 When my Eyes opened I see a panicked wife grabbing me and shaking me (since she knows better plus an explosion outside my bay window that looks like willy pete totally took me out of my normal frame of mind)

#2 It's strange to me how I reacted because I don't remember assessing the situation , It's like I was on some weird autopilot that I couldn't control.

#3 It bothers me that I started clearing the house without all of my wits about me. ( I've trained around my house before but The part that bothers me is like I've said before It's almost like I was on some sort of loop.) I went through the fatal funnel and pied the corner around my kids room and Honestly I don't remember doing any of it.

Any info would be good.

Any feedback from you guys would be well appreciated.
__________________
1) TREAT EVERY WEAPON AS IF IT WERE LOADED
2) IF YOU AIM AT IT ASSUME YOU JUST KILLED IT
3&4) FINGER STRAIGHT & OFF THE TRIGGER & WEAPON ON SAFE UNTIL YOU INTEND TO FIRE.

If you're a combat vet, you have VA coverage. The VA may not be good at a lot of things, but they are very well versed on PTSD. I'm not saying that you definitely have that, but talk to a medical professional to be sure. You said that you didn't have all your wits about you and you were clearing the house. This takes a lot of time and exertion to complete. You should have been 'with it' by this point. This is not normal, nor is it safe. If I do not have 'my wits' about me I certainly do not feel safe clearing a house with my wife and kids inside with a loaded weapon. PLEASE ignore those who say that this is completely normal. I know you don't want to have another episode like this in the future where you accidentally shoot a loved one while you didn't have your wits about you because someone on a forum told you it was normal. Stop taking lunesta until you see a medical professional. You yourself said that you haven't taken it in a long time, what harm will it do to discontinue its use until you see a doctor? Don't take medical advice from someone on a gun forum that hasn't even examined you whatsoever. Instead, take precautionary advice and see a doctor. Good luck man!

[truecrimson]

Originally Posted by Triegle

I take melatonin when i cant sleep. Its a natural hormone that helps you fall alseep and kick the sertonin(sp) into gear to keep you alseep. It doesnt knock you out like a prescribed medication would. I would suggest giving that a try.

Given your past and the way things went down i dont see that you did anything wrong BTW

oh and why did she wake you up the way she did?

Melatonin is just as bad as any prescribed med. In fact anything that fucks with seratonin should not be taken lightly. People think that anything marketed as a vitamin or supplement and not regulated by the FDA is safe, but that is not the case. Caveat emptor.