PSU students/staff: Empty Holster Protest

[ithinkimamedic]

Originally Posted by Kenshin

I spent all day on campus both today and yesterday and I haven't heard anything about a lockdown.... Makes me wonder if the first thing ill see if the SHTF is a bunch of students running and screaming....

I believe he is refering to this.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/centre-50...e-college.html

From what I was told someone missunderstood Atherton St with Atherton hall and called police for PSU. He does have a valid point though I don't know how many students were still around at the time of this event.

[Zef_66]

Originally Posted by lexington86

I would think no. What rule would carrying an empty holster violate? It would have to be a rule saying you can't attach any plastic or leather device to your belt that could be used to carry a weapon. Sounds silly just typing that.

Again, you are thinking in regards to PA laws. Again, I was just thinking outloud and continue to do so. But check out PSU's Code of Conduct. A couple of those things could be strewn against you and be grounds for discilpinary action. Again, remember, this is not PA laws. You do not have all the same rights...

11. FAILURE TO COMPLY: Failing to comply with reasonable directives from University officials when directed to do so. Failure to provide identification or to report to an administrative office or, when reasonable cause exists, failing to leave University-controlled premises or dangerous situations when directed to do so by properly authorized persons, including police and/or other University staff. This charge may be added to other charges, e.g., when a student fails to leave a residence hall during a fire drill and refuses to leave when directed to do so by a University official.

9. DISRUPTION OF OPERATIONS: Obstruction or disruption of classes, research projects, or other activities or programs of the University; or obstructing access to University facilities, property, or programs. Disruption is defined as an action or combination of actions by one or more individuals that unreasonably interferes with, hinders, obstructs, or prevents the operation of the University or infringes on the rights of others to freely participate in its programs and services (also see Policy Statement 1).

14. DISORDERLY CONDUCT: Engaging in disorderly, disruptive, lewd or indecent conduct. The item includes but is not limited to: inciting or participating in a riot or group disruption; failing to leave the scene of a riot or group disruption when instructed by officials; disruption of programs, classroom activities or functions and processes of the University; creating unreasonable noise; or creating a physically hazardous or physically offensive condition.

Just saying...Judicial Affairs is not nice to students, even if they are just "accused" of a crime, like participating in a riot, and not found guilty, they will be suspended. Being found innocent in the state of PA courts doesn't mean squat to PSU. They make their own rules....

[Kenshin]

You wanna the things i have been wondering about is whether or not the campus is its own township/municipality. Some people i have talked to on the physical plant crew have said that and i wanna make sure. The university has its own postal code, police department, hazmat team, water supply, and quite a few other things.

[Zef_66]

Originally Posted by Kenshin

You wanna the things i have been wondering about is whether or not the campus is its own township/municipality. Some people i have talked to on the physical plant crew have said that and i wanna make sure. The university has its own postal code, police department, hazmat team, water supply, and quite a few other things.

Penn State is in essence its own municipality, yes. As you said, they have all these things and take care of their own. They do not rely on the city of State College for anything. And I don't think they pay any taxes to them. Not sure how it all works, but that is what I understand. It is the city called University Park, PA. Population varies.

[Kenshin]

If it is a true municipality then the idea is that PSU policy violates preemption in the UFA. However i dont know if is or it isn't but its something that my roommate and i have been looking at. Chances are the policy has nothing to do with law and it is free from preemption but its just interesting to see.

[Zef_66]

Originally Posted by Kenshin

If it is a true municipality then the idea is that PSU policy violates preemption in the UFA. However i dont know if is or it isn't but its something that my roommate and i have been looking at. Chances are the policy has nothing to do with law and it is free from preemption but its just interesting to see.

Even if it is its own municipality, PSU rules only apply to students. Since I am not a student (anymore), I can carry my firearm onto campus and there is nothing they can do legally except ask me to leave. Also consider that you, as a student of PSU, are allowded to carry your firearm on campus. But you simply face suspension or getting expelled if caught. Nothing will happen to you legally from the state of PA. Just judicial action from Penn State itself.

Nothing different than my employer telling me I am not allowded to bring firearms, or guns of any kind into company buildings. But I carry everyday with the understanding that if I can caught, I will probably be terminated, even though I didn't break any law.

But I would rather be able to defend myself and not have a job than have a job that I can't goto because I am six feet underground. Similarly, when I was a student, I rathered that if anything happened, I was alive to get expelled than defenseless and dead.

[lexington86]

Just wanted to give this thread a little bump with an update.

From http://www.concealedcampus.org/

Students for Concealed Carry on Campus Prepares for Second Empty Holster Protest

During the week of April 21-25, 2008, thousands of college students throughout the United States, organized under the banner of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), will attend classes wearing empty holsters, in protest of state laws and school policies that stack the odds in favor of dangerous criminals and armed killers by disarming law abiding citizens licensed to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere else.

SCCC hosted its first national collegiate Empty Holster Protest during the week of October 22-26, 2007, on the campuses of approximately 125 U.S. colleges and universities. This second Empty Holster Protest will expand upon the concept of the first protest by placing greater emphasis on educating the uninformed. Protesters will focus on sharing the facts of “concealed carry” with students and faculty who may not be aware that concealed carry laws exist or that those laws differ on college campuses from most other locations.

I will be on campus (PSU main campus) Tuesday and Thursday during that week and will be participating in the protest both days. Does anyone know if there is a group organizing some sort of sign-waving outside of the HUB or anything?

[rspowers]

Here is PSUs policy:

http://www.psu.edu/dept/police/weapons.html

This is really one of the stupidest rules. There have been a few articles in the collegian this week about it as well. I think that people do not understand that it is legal to carry them everywhere else. I highly doubt they will every allow them.

What they will do, in my opinion in upcoming years is to become like corporations are...i.e. badges to get in buildings, security officers at all entrances, etc. Not perfect, but much better than it is now.

[bdancer]

Originally Posted by lexington86

Does anyone know if there is a group organizing some sort of sign-waving outside of the HUB or anything?

Last time we protested by walking around with holsters but didn't meet up in front of the HUB. Not sure what we'll do this time around.

A bunch of Penn Staters are signed up on the facebook group to participate in the protest, and some of us are meeting in the next few weeks to discuss the protest and make plans for advertising and contacting reps. If you or anyone else wants to get involved, send me a PM and I'll give you more details.

It'd be particularly helpful to get faculty and staff as participants, so if you are one or know one who would like to help, send me a PM.

[lexington86]

Originally Posted by bdancer

Last time we protested by walking around with holsters but didn't meet up in front of the HUB. Not sure what we'll do this time around.

A bunch of Penn Staters are signed up on the facebook group to participate in the protest, and some of us are meeting in the next few weeks to discuss the protest and make plans for advertising and contacting reps. If you or anyone else wants to get involved, send me a PM and I'll give you more details.

It'd be particularly helpful to get faculty and staff as participants, so if you are one or know one who would like to help, send me a PM.

Has any organization happened? Any news?