Trouble with reloading 30-06 rounds - crushed shoulder and neck

[Computer Steve]

But even with a taper crimp it wouldn't crush the shoulders.

The die is too short for the press and he needs to adjust the seater as I described.

[dieselguy624]

Get RCBS, Lyman, or Hornady dies! I've had problems with every Lee sizing die I ever tried.

[The_Mustang]

Originally Posted by Farbmeister

You have not read the directions have you????

The bullet seater HAS A CRIMPER BUILT IN. You have a separate factory crimper, but you also have a standard, run of the mill bullet seater with a taper crimp on it.

READ THE DIRECTIONS FOR BOTH THE BULLET SEATER AND FACTORY CRIMP.

You are missing the part the explains if you want to crimp in another step, back the bullet seater out like 3-4 turns.

READ THE DIRECTIONS. Do you see a pattern forming?

This is correct. The pacesetter die set works just like that. You most likely think that you have the Lee "Deluxe Rifle Set". The seating die on the pacesetter set has a built in crimp function. Back out that seating and set the die up as per the instructions and gradually run your seating in on the first bullet until you get the OAL that you desire. Good luck.

[bogey1]

Originally Posted by Farbmeister

You have not read the directions have you????

The bullet seater HAS A CRIMPER BUILT IN. You have a separate factory crimper, but you also have a standard, run of the mill bullet seater with a taper crimp on it.

READ THE DIRECTIONS FOR BOTH THE BULLET SEATER AND FACTORY CRIMP.

You are missing the part the explains if you want to crimp in another step, back the bullet seater out like 3-4 turns.

READ THE DIRECTIONS. Do you see a pattern forming?

relax farbmeister, were here to help, not to discourage. that's one of the best ways to learn, ASK.

[Gunny1969]

Well, I did some checking last night on my Lee Pacesetter dies (in 223).
according to my digital caliper a fired 223 case (at the edge of the mouth) measures .224-225 before resizing, .223 after resizing, The .223 bullet measures .224. I performed a bullet seat procedure without a bullet to see the final case neck diameter, it was still .223, which would lead me to believe there is no crimp in the Pacesetter 223 seating die. The bullet is held in only by neck tension. The Factory Crimp die on that set performs the crimp. I use to use the crimp die, but I've never experienced an advantage to using it in a semi-auto AR. Matter of fact, it could be a disadvantage due to the extra stress on the case neck with regards to case life. I maybe missing something here, but I'm not infallible.

Edit: I just though of a flaw in my theory. Tonight I'll grab a fired case and put it in the seating die to see if it reduces the neck size to .223. If it remains at .224-.225 then thats proof to my theory that their is no crimp in the Pacesetter seating die and that only neck tension (created by the sizing die) holds the bullet in the case.

Final edit: I retested with a unsized fired case. The neck size did not change with the bullet seating die. Therefore my initial hypothesis was correct. BTW, the ram is set to make full contact with the die base.

[max384]

Thank you everyone for the help. I have not been on in about two days and I now have over a page of answers since my last post! Well, I guess I was just being stubborn. I finally called up Lee and just talked to them and it turns out I do have a crimper on the bullet seating die. I really, honestly thought I did not have one... So, sorry to everyone that I insisted on telling them I had a separate crimping die.... Well I do have a separate crimping die, which is why I thought this one did not have a crimper. So, I adjusted accordingly, and it is now working.

READ THE DIRECTIONS. Do you see a pattern forming?

Farbmeister, I did read the directions. It said to turn in 1/4 turn if crimp is desired and out 1/2 turn if not desired. Then the very next step talked about the separate factory crimping die... So I assumed turning in 1/4 turn was to prepare the cartridge for crimping using the separate crimping die. Furthermore, on midwayusa, where I purchased the set, similar sets that did not include the separate factory crimp die said it came with a bullet seating/crimping die combo, whereas the set I got said only a bullet seating die. Please, let the blood flow back through the rest of your body now.

[Gunny1969]

Originally Posted by max384

Thank you everyone for the help. I have not been on in about two days and I now have over a page of answers since my last post! Well, I guess I was just being stubborn. I finally called up Lee and just talked to them and it turns out I do have a crimper on the bullet seating die. I really, honestly thought I did not have one... So, sorry to everyone that I insisted on telling them I had a separate crimping die.... Well I do have a separate crimping die, which is why I thought this one did not have a crimper. So, I adjusted accordingly, and it is now working.



Farbmeister, I did read the directions. It said to turn in 1/4 turn if crimp is desired and out 1/2 turn if not desired. Then the very next step talked about the separate factory crimping die... So I assumed turning in 1/4 turn was to prepare the cartridge for crimping using the separate crimping die. Furthermore, on midwayusa, where I purchased the set, similar sets that did not include the separate factory crimp die said it came with a bullet seating/crimping die combo, whereas the set I got said only a bullet seating die. Please, let the blood flow back through the rest of your body now.

I've never reloaded 30.06 with Lee dies (only .223). I wonder why lee uses a crimp in the 30.06 and not on the .223 seating die (see my previous post)?
So, what Lee told you was to back off the seating die so it makes less contact with your ram?

[41 Redhawk]

So, what Lee told you was to back off the seating die so it makes less contact with your ram?

I have never used a seating die that made contact with the ram/shell holder. Moving the die up and down controls the amount of crimp the seating die applies when you are using the seating die to crimp. I only crimp rifle rounds if I am using them in a tube magazine or a semi-auto.

[max384]

Gunny, I only used Lee rifle dies for .223 before moving on to the 30-06. I set up the die just like I have it for the .223 with the die touching the shell holder with the ram fully extended like you said you have yours. When I talked to Lee they told me to back it off half a turn and that did the trick. I didn't think to ask them why the difference between the .223 and 30-06... Although my .223 die set is not the pacesetter series like the 30-06, maybe that's the difference?

Redhawk, the directions on the included pamphlet that came with the die set says to screw the die in until you feel it touch the case mouth and then either back it off 1/2 turn or screw it in further 1/4 turn (depending on crimp). I am using a crimp on these because it's a magazine-fed bolt action. If it was a single shot I would skip the crimp all together.

[41 Redhawk]

Redhawk, the directions on the included pamphlet that came with the die set says to screw the die in until you feel it touch the case mouth and then either back it off 1/2 turn or screw it in further 1/4 turn (depending on crimp). I am using a crimp on these because it's a magazine-fed bolt action. If it was a single shot I would skip the crimp all together.

I have a Rem 700 30.06. I do not crimp for it and have never had a bullet move. There is plenty of neck tension to keep the bullet from moving. I also had a 270 Savage with a box mag. Didn't crimp that one either. I doubt I'll crimp when I start loading for my new to me AR. I'll probably determine that tonight when I shoot a few I loaded for my Contender this evening! The bullets might move in that one since the neck is so short.

OTOH I do crimp for all my Marlins because the cartridges are stacked nose to tail and have to endure recoil that way.