Quote:
Originally Posted by GunLawyer001
He did not have enough facts to justify a Terry stop, or the disarmament. He is not allowed by law to demand your wallet, and to root around inside it.
The fact of a citizen complaint does not translate into reasonable suspicion, unless the facts alleged by that citizen translate into a crime. "Man with a gun" is not a crime, there must be more before the cops are justified in making demands. They can't even demand to see your LTCF if you're openly carrying, unless they see you get out of a vehicle, or you admit to arriving in a vehicle.
Police can start any conversational attempts they wish, to see if you'll make an admission that creates the reasonable articulable suspicion that they need before they can start bullying you. You just don't have to cooperate with their idle conversation.
Your LTCF doesn't mention "concealed", but there's a reference in the UFA to the purpose of the LTCF being to carry concealed or in a vehicle (Section 6109(a)). Some cops stop the analysis there, and say that if you're not in a vehicle, then you must carry concealed. They are wrong. The purpose of the license is to fulfill the requirement in 6106 that if you carry concealed or in a vehicle, you must have the license. That's it. It doesn't impose any concealment requirement, it exists solely so that you don't get arrested for unlicensed concealed carry under 6106.
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Yep, I know. But it seemed better not to be difficult. I didn't get the vibe that were fishing for something, or intentionally harrassing a lowly citizen. They were nice guys. They really didn't know. In the end they learned through their own department that it is legal. I think if I had come off as a hardass they would have responded in kind, and the outcome would have been different. Their perception of OCers would be negative.
Thank you for laying out the particulars so clearly. I often have trouble keeping the legalese straight. I will bring up all of your points to the chief.