Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyF
Take a step back and reflect on how many members of this forum were ignorant of the fact that OC is legal. My point is that "cops are people too".
And if I'm an administrator of an LE agency with limited training and educational funds, you can bet your life I'm going to spend the lions share of their education on things that they are most likely to encounter.
In fact, let's not forget that OC isn't even covered by statute so how are they supposed to know about a law that doesn't exist? It is legal because there is no statute prohibiting it. What some of you guys are actually asking is for patrol cops to know case law (e.g. Hawkins). That's even worse than asking them to know "all" the laws on the books.
No way guys, I'm not giving an inch on this one.
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No problemo but you can't enforce laws that don't exist. Criminal laws are proscriptive. The text tells you what people can't do. If you want to arrest someone, somewhere down the road you had better be able to point to a law that says whatever it is is illegal. If you can't, you won't have to give an inch the judge will take care of what you'll be giving, welcome to the defendant's side of the courtroom. The basic premise is that the public can't be made to guess what is and isn't illegal and will land them in a cell. If you have to guess and wonder, how do you think John Q. is supposed to deal with his everyday life? Walk around wondering if his every move might at any moment be declared illegal by the police?
The crimes code is pretty short and very easy to understand.
All
Hawkins did was remind the police and gov't that it's not illegal to openly carry a gun. There is no law against it. That case should really drive home the point that no matter what anyone might think, if the legislature didn't make something illegal, it's not. If it's not illegal to do it, it can't make people doing it suspicious either. These should not be remarkable conclusions requiring the Pa Supreme Court to tell us, but it did. Why, well people just refuse to believe that openly carrying a gun is, as a matter of law, not suspicious; it has to be, right? No, it's not. There's no law against it.
Seriously, if you think you need to see something written down saying people are allowed to do something before you'll let them do it, for your own good you better have a talk with your city solicitor or department counsel.
Oh and before I forget, I'm not arguing with you to criticize your point of view. I'm trying to get a handle on the various sides of the issue before I decide where I want to come down on it. So, I appreciate your point of vew.