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Originally Posted by TonyF
More importantly, what is the pressure curve and how quickly does it peak?
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Ahh, that seldom recognized, frequently overlooked, powder and primer ignition fact that almost everybody forgets to take into consideration.
How true!
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Originally Posted by DPB
NO handgun is suitable for "running gun battles, and barricades." Period. However, it is not generally socially acceptable to carry weaponry to deal with these conditions. Also, I highly suspect that no one carries enough pistol ammo to engage in a "running gun battle," unless there is a whole lot more "running" than there is "battle."
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Well, the Laurel Canyon and Homestead shootouts DO come to mind!
Perhaps you need to rethink things. This discussion is better placed in its most common scenario. The original statement did NOT say that any handgun is ideal for, ‘running gun battles and barricades’. That’s an assumption I, for one, would never make; and I hope it wasn’t implied, either!
Begin by looking at any of the police video/convenience store shootouts on TV; and, see for yourself what the circumstances were, and at what the most commonly deployed weapon always seems to be!
Now, while it’s possible to walk around certain countries (like Israel) with an M-4 slung over your shoulder without attracting undue attention, you can’t do the same thing, here, in America! The simple observation needs to be made that a handgun is frequently the ONLY weapon most gunmen will have when suddenly confronted by dire circumstance.
Consequently high capacity, large caliber pistols tend to be more useful and are of greater inherent value during a wide variety of CQB engagements. Don’t forget: When it’s empty, it becomes either a rock or a club. Without an adequate supply of ammunition, the best firearm in the world is worthless!
I know plenty of Americans who carry a pistol with 6 or 7 rounds and believe this is enough. I don’t happen to be one of them. My own usual belt load includes 30 rounds of ammo carried inside two magazines. I, often, have a BUG in an outside pocket, too. Sure, I hope I’ll never actually have to use any of this; but, still, it is nice to know it’s there.
I’ve, also, worked in gun stores that required a minimum of 3 salespeople inside the shop at all times and stashed riot guns every 20 feet, or so, behind the counter. Frankly, I never felt at ease in this situation. (But, this is the Poconos!) Even though I’ve been asked to do it, again, I don’t think I’m going to. Sad to say, but, in 21st century America such precautions seem to be both necessary AND prudent.
Combat mentality and training, also, have a lot to do with things: I, pretty much, gave up single shot, postal shooting many years ago. Nowadays, my usual handgun practice technique involves double and triple taps across multiple targets. Today, whenever I fire a pistol, my entire focus is on where the second and third shots are going to hit. (Cause I already know where the first one will be.)
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Originally Posted by DeltaII5
+1 I feel like I'm reading a book sometimes.
45 is very common as compared to .357. But as we have learned from Box O' Truth as informal as it is. Higher velocity will penetrate body armor better. No pistol will penetrate completely of course. Just the like the slower the velocity the farther it will go in sand.
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So what’s wrong with books? Far be it from me to disagree with such an esteemed authority as, ‘Box ‘O Truth’, BUT, it ain’t velocity that defeats soft body armor – It’s point configuration! (Think knifepoint.)
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Originally Posted by DeltaII5
I haven't heard of anyone complaining that a 45 won't penetrate. I'm curious about the "Hazleton LEO shootout" where someone mentioned about the lack of penetration on 40 SW rounds. Is it a velocity or energy issue? if it is even true they are having problems with penetration.
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Neither! Again it was point configuration. As the coroner noted, the culprit was wearing a heavy down jacket.