[NineseveN]

In addition, Barniskis has apostles who actively attempt to enlighten the people here at PAFOA. Here is how one such apostle describes his mission:

[i]“I'm a pretty regular poster on PAFOA.org, my goal in posting there has been to try and reach those that only know what our anointed chiefs tell them… and also trying to force everyone with an opinion on Constitutional or PA/Federal Law matters to actually do the unthinkable and cite their sources (half the time they cannot, because it doesn't exist). Anyway, I've made some headway with some folks new to the game, but that's my excuse for being so vocal there. The members are a pretty decent bunch of folks, even if they're not the most politically vicious or attuned”.

Oh, gee, that was none other than NineseveN, giving his report to Andy on his progress in reaching those lost souls at PAFOA that only know what their anointed chiefs tell them. How specially nice of him to condescend to us folks who are less politically attuned.

If you're going to quote me, don't deliberately butcher what I said. That's underhanded, and quite frankly, it's bullshit. I save those e-mails too, so for what I truly said, see below:

I'm a pretty regular poster on PAFOA.org, my goal in posting there has been to try and reach those that only know what our anointed chiefs tell them (i.e. we need this gun control law, the Republicans are our friends, the ACLU is the devil, Gun Rights are linked to keeping the brown people out of this country) and also trying to force everyone with an opinion on Constitutional or PA/Federal Law matters to actually do the unthinkable and cite their sources (half the time they cannot, because it doesn't exist). Anyway, I've made some headway with some folks new to the game, but that's my excuse for being so vocal there. The members are a pretty decent bunch of folks, even if they're not the most politically vicious or attuned, it's nice to talk to shooters without getting too deep into politics or law all the time. Though, I have a hard time staying away from the political and legal topics...being a glutton for punishment and all.

I then went on to say,

I guess my hot button in regards to PAFOA.org and other such purely public forums is that cheerleading there reaches people who arent even members. On a private list, it doesn't bother me so much (I wouldn't have bothered to say anything on a private list of Harry's aside from maybe disagreeing with him). There are so many people that just read what others with high post counts or a given title say and then take it as gospel. I don't care if someone disagrees with me, I just ask that they at least have the courtesy to be honest with themselves and not simply parrot the same,
tired old myths that have no heft to them (and that goes for those that I agree with as well). Opinion is one thing, but a misrepresentation of the facts just rubs me the wrong way, ESPECIALLY when it happens to me (which it does, like everyone else).

That was in response to a rather long discussion the last time one of you guys tried this smear crap (Whitefeather posting only a portion of a discussion in order to represent only one side of the issue). And I stand by what I said. I've said it here before, I think people know my aim here. We have had some amazingly wonderful discussions, some misconceptions have been reversed, a lot of misinformation has been taken out of circulation and a lot of semi-RKBA stances have shifted towards more rigid views...that is all a good thing. We have had many people here cite opinions that Open Carry is illegal, that you can be cited for doing it under the cover of many different charges, none of which apply (and some that don't even exist in this state such as "brandishing"). We've had discussions on mandatory training requirements, Vermont/Alaska-styled carry, assault weapons bans, where you can and cannot legally carry and the actual US and PA constitutions - all of those discussions included explanation and debate on some things that simply aren't true. People provide their sources and eventually, the truth wins out. This is a good thing, and for it to be my goal for being so vocal is not a terrible thing I would think, so I certainly won't back away from what I said. Maybe 100 or so people on this site are seemingly dedicated to the same thing, and oddly enough, those are the people on this site with the highest reputations and seem to be the most well-received. All of us don't agree on some aspects of the discussions here, but we can all generally agree on the facts of each matter...it's the little details in between that really ignites the discussions. None of this is bad, underhanded, dishonest or anything less than an admirable goal. We have attorneys, law enforcement officers, experts or people knowledgeable in a variety of fields and situations and people with amazing life experiences that all contribute to the same goal; to educate, to learn, to inspire and to become more effective politically without solely relying on so-called advocate groups to do all the work for us.

Again, if you're going to quote me, try not to be like the liberal media scum and butcher the quote to try and make it say what you want it to...also, context usually helps. Anything less is simply dishonest.

If Barniskis is attacking PAFOA just like every other coalition organization (he does on a regular basis), and his True Believers are actively proselytizing here, then he and his operation deserve discussion here.

Then have it be an honest discussion, you've engaged in nothing more than a less-than-honest smear campaign, again, something I wouldn't expect from this site. No one is attacking PAFOA, and to be fair, you guys have your own lists (and no, I won't be quoting from them in order to make you look bad, I don't do that, but you know exactly what I'm talking about, no one else needs to).

More importantly, PAFOA is about our civil rights, particularly our right to keep and bear arms. Barniskis has been waging a long term campaign to discredit the most effective PA pro-gun leaders, organizations, and legislators. The more effective someone becomes, the more viciously Barniskis attacks them. PAFOA, Rep Metcalfe, Kim Stolfer, and Harry Schneider are prime examples of the sort of targets Barniskis loves to fire at.

NineseveN’s disdain for Rep. Metcalfe, his constant refrain that “law is meaningless”, his constant fear mongering that our best RKBA groups and leaders are working behind closed doors to sell us out any day now; all these themes are copycatted from Andy Barniskis. NineseveN truly is a faithful apostle and True Believe for Andy Barniskis and his special brand of anarchy.

Considering HIS agenda here, I don’t believe NineseveN has the moral authority to be questioning my reasons for discussing Andyland, an important subject that affects everyone who is concerned about gun rights in Pennsylvania.[/size]

And yet you talk about discussion, but none of what you posted above is exactly true. I'm not here to specifically defend Andy Barniskis, but I don't recall ever offering up the thoughts that any particular RKBA groups are intentionally trying to sell us out (at least, on their terms), I have criticized some of the movements and dealings with a number of RKBA groups, PA-specific groups included. Criticism is one of the pitfalls of taking on a public face. Sometimes you step in it, sometimes it steps on you. That's the life of activists, lobbyists, politicians and public figures. People make mistakes, people have different ideas and different concerns, both sides unfortunately sling mud when and as it suits them. But you're making it out to be a sinister plot to destroy gun rights in this state when that's simply not accurate. What I suspect is that you guys like to control what gets discussed and how information comes out (wholly admitted to by Harry Schneider and many people just like yourself) and PAFOA.org represents a true grass roots movement that you cannot control, which dents the image of power that some groups hold, and that's a scary proposition for those people (which is why some of us here have been told not to post certain things unless we check with certain anointed chiefs first). That I didn't bow down to and kiss the ring with a promise to not post anything that wouldn't be approved of is cause to question my motives it seems. And now, the impression I get from some of your discussions is that you're worried that Andy is starting some sort of activism group, and so you must race to discredit him before that happens. It's sad, paranoid and delusional in my opinion, but you know, some people...

As for the apparent attempt to try and smear my character, I have news for you; while most of what Andy has said may be a mystery to the people here, I have nearly 2000 posts, and anyone is free to search them and see what I'm about. If they can find evidence that I have a particular disdain for Rep Metcalf (instead of a general mistrust for ALL politicians) or that I've fear-mongered anyone into anything, good for them...but I don't recall any of that and I'm not about to go deleting anything I've posted, so it's up to them to decide. But you go ahead and enjoy your crusade anyway.


As an aside, concerning the “apostle” stuff, for the record, Andy invited me to join his list based on a blog I used to write some time ago, his thoughts haven't really changed my overall viewpoints any more than some of the compelling arguments I've enjoyed on this site.


I'm very disappointed in you personally, I was given the impression that you were better than this. Go figure.